Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?)

If it's something you watch or hear or read, this is the general grab-bag for it.

Should incest be legal between consenting adults?

Yes
1
50%
Yes with certain restrictions (child and parent for example)
0
No votes
No
1
50%
I don't know
0
No votes
It should be accepted but not legal
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 2

Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?)

Postby Wic » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:56 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1 ... 71005.html

Director Nick Cassavetes ("The Notebook," "Alpha Dog") debuted his controversial new movie this weekend, but his comments in an interview with TheWrap may well out-shine the project itself.

"Yellow" bowed at the Toronto International Film Festival. The movie revolves around Mary, the main character played by Cassavetes' ex-wife Heather Wahlquist. Mary visits her brother in prison, and the two are, as The Wrap's Sharon Waxman notes, engaged in a "love affair."

Here are Cassavetes' thoughts on the plotline:

“I have no experience with incest. We started thinking about that. We had heard a few stories where brothers and sisters were completely, absolutely in love with one another. You know what? This whole movie is about judgment, and lack of it, and doing what you want.

Who gives a shit if people judge you? I’m not saying this is an absolute but in a way, if you’re not having kids – who gives a damn? Love who you want. Isn’t that what we say? Gay marriage – love who you want? If it’s your brother or sister it’s super-weird, but if you look at it, you’re not hurting anybody except every single person who freaks out because you’re in love with one another.”

For more from the interview, including how difficult it was to get the film completed, head over to TheWrap.

Cassavetes has kept busy. He acted in "The Hangover II" (as a replacement for Liam Neeson) and is currently prepping "Cali," a film about two lovers who reap the profits of a fake snuff film. Kristen Stweart was set to star in the film, but abruptly dropped out just as news of her affair with married "Snow White and the Huntsman" director Rupert Sanders was coming to light.

More on "Yellow" is available at TheWrap. "Yellow" has no U.S. release date. The film's teaser trailer is available above.


So, incest between consenting adults. Should it be legal and why? If not, why it should stay illegal?
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby Coda » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:05 am

Incest isn't a matter of squicky "ew, they're RELATED!" reactions. There's a very good reason it's illegal: it's NOT just a matter of "not hurting anyone." Incest is inbreeding, and inbreeding causes major genetic problems. It's essentially child abuse, in the same sense that drinking while pregnant is child abuse, because it's a choice of behavior that causes permanent, irreparable damage to the child.

Unlike the abortion debate, this isn't merely a question of civil liberties. Abortion is a question of whether or not to have the child. Inbreeding affects the child AFTER its birth, at which point the question of personhood of a fetus and similar questions are no longer an issue.

If I recall correctly, cousins are genetically distant enough to be basically safe, assuming that there are no other crossings in their family tree. That, however, may not be a valid assumption -- it's not unusual for a pair of brothers to marry a pair of sisters; THEIR children would be cousins but would have unsafe amounts of genetic correlation, as there would only be four great-grandparents instead of eight. And if there were patterns of such minglings farther back in the family tree as well, you're looking at a lot of potential for trouble. So relaxing the incest laws to permit couplings that aren't at such risk would involve genetic testing, and making genetic testing required by law opens up a BIG can of worms.
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby Wic » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:33 pm

But we have birth control now, shouldn't that fact alone make the laws moot?

Also... I find it hard to believe that anyone WANTS to have retarded children unless they're already insane. You're making it sound like everyone in incestious relationship is going to breed like rabbits.
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby Coda » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:00 pm

I'm not trying to imply that incestuous couples would necessarily have kids without restraint or control. What I AM saying is that couples, whether incestuous or not, very often want families, and the default method of producing a family is to bear your own children. And if you WANT a kid, birth control is moot.

Such a couple certainly won't WANT a handicapped child -- almost no one does. Neither does an alcoholic mother want her child to have fetal alcohol syndrome. But laws exist to keep people from doing things that would bring harm to others, even if they don't have knowledge or intent of it being harmful.

That's why laws against incest aren't merely a question of morality or social norms. It's an actual, objectively-sound rationale.
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby RaharuAharu » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:02 am

What are the chances of human inbreeding causing a negative genetic side effect, in the case of say a brother sister relationship? Is it something that can happen in the first generation of off spring?

What if one of the two people involved was voluntarily sterilized? Would it be ok then?

I believe in freedom of choice, with the caveat that it does not harm people. With such in mind, as long as there was no risk of first generation deffects, or if one of both parties involved opt for sexual sterilization I would have no issue with it.
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby Coda » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:31 pm

Yes, it can happen first generation. It's not even that hard, to the point where "are you sure you're not related?" is basically the first question asked of the parents when a child has an autosomal recessive disorder. If one grandparent is a carrier for a harmful recessive trait, then both of the parents (who are siblings) have a 50% chance to be carriers for that trait as well, which means that their child would have a risk of inheriting both copies of that gene and expressing that harmful recessive trait. And since recessive traits are invisible or nearly invisible if you're a carrier, there would be no way of knowing short of genetic testing if the child would be at risk, and genetic testing when you don't have a guess at what the problem might be is slow and expensive.

Voluntary sterilization would do the job, but that gets into the whole political turmoil of reproductive rights and legislating permanently-disabling medical procedures. I don't think I need to get into much depth about this on this board; this seems like the kind of group who would be familiar with the implications of that. (There's also the issue of the divorce rate being in excess of 50% in the US; permanent sterilization for something that's statistically more likely than not to be a temporary relationship somehow seems like a bad idea.)

If it were just a civil rights issue, I'd agree -- make it legal, stay out of the way.
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Re: Nick Cassavetes - Who gives a damn about incest (Do you?

Postby Alfador » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:33 pm

So how about homosexual incest, or where one partner or the other is permanently sterile from unrelated(no pun intended) causes?
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