Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby InterNutter » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:58 am

I was certain this would be on the board, by now. In brief, the dorkwads at Amazon, in an attempt to "exclude "adult" material from appearing in some searches and best seller lists", has removed sales ranks from certain materials.

These materials somehow exclude _Mein Kampf_, Heterosexual-only sexfest 'romance' books, and how-to instruction manuals on *dog fighting*... but include anything that involves men kissing men, girls kissing girls, or transies finding anything related to romance.

Open letter:
http://booksquare.com/open-letter-to-am ... y-changes/

Petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-pro ... ult-policy

I signed it - and added a suggestion that, if they were serious, they'd remove everything that wasn't G-rated... including the Bible :D I also called them "dipshits".

I propose a bunch of the most rabid anti-breeders amongst my fellow forumites start protesting all the kiddie books because they don't like seeing evidence of "the breeder manifesto" or suchlike... that is, if Amazon doesn't catch a farging clue.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Relee » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:42 pm

It's been pretty crazy. They corrected it right away and claimed it was a bug. Someone claimed to have hacked the site to make it all happen. In any event what was done has been undone and Amazon are appologetic so it's not a really big deal.

Of course, during the thing my friend Pyat managed to snapshot this pic of the top five books on homosexuality:

http://pics.livejournal.com/pyat/pic/0023tcgk/
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby InterNutter » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:47 pm

Methinks they corrected it five seconds after the humongous, global hue and cry of outrage... :doubtful:

Interesting snapshot tho'[edit] I did the same search and got the same results.
Last edited by InterNutter on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Monthenor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:09 pm

Relee wrote:Of course, during the thing my friend Pyat managed to snapshot this pic of the top five books on homosexuality:

http://pics.livejournal.com/pyat/pic/0023tcgk/

That is too perfect. That image should live in Internet infamy.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Anna » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:02 am

Nice pic.

By the way homosexuality can indeed be prevented.
Genetic surgery before both 50% parts of mum and dad gets together.
The same way you choose to get Einstein II. or simply blond and blue eyed, and other health stuff.
You want to get the best for your child, even if this means: 20 % from the parents and 80% from unknown people.
Oh wonderful parenthood.

But the best way to fight homosexuality is to let them be as they want.
Really, don't force gay people to marriage in a hetero way, their genetic potential will spread again around, you do breed them and the result is more gay people, you cultivated them.
If you stop this, I promise it will fall back on a normal level.
But don't forget, the cultivating of gays has a loooong history, more than 2000 years and it will need patience.
I'll guarantee the success.
You know, the christian religion is a religion wich comes originally from shepherds, trust the old experiences of the breeding specialists.

To heal Homosexuality is impossible, it is a complicated problem and the genetic surgery on living grown up beeings are very primitive.
It will need some centuries of time and a lot of research on stem cells, but as you know, for religious reasons you can not allow that.
So forget the healing, try the first way: stop breeding gays!
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Plasman » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:27 am

If we start breeding-and-weeding out the undesirables, where do we stop? "Oh dear, this baby's come out as a red-head - to the slaughter lab!!!"
Ludicrous. :frown: The idea of "racial purity" ignores the fact that mutations can have uses within a society. Just 'cos someone's born with six fingers on each hand, doesn't mean you have to cut their hands off. In fact, they'd probably make a good touch typist or pianist! :P

...oops, strayed off topic.
That image is really quite funny, in the black sense.
I'll bet Amazon fixed that little problem up pretty quick. :oops:
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Relee » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:46 pm

As long as we're still doing the evolutionary dance I don't think it's good to aim for particular genetic combos. But at some point we're going to start modding our bodies within a single generation, and then it'll only make sense to give up on classical evolution.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Monocheres » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:10 pm

The idea of breeding out homosexuality and gender dysphoria is as specious as the idea of breeding out heterosexuality and gender euphoria. The former exist because otherwise the latter could not.

How can I say this? Because we were not the products of intelligent design. Any woman could tell you that, 4 to 6 days out of the month. Or a handful (hopefully, only a handful) of excruciatingly painful though usually rewarding times in her life. Surely an intelligent designer could have come up with a neater, tidier, less error-prone system of reproduction. But we are the products of evolution, and evolution is not tidy. It is highly dependent on contingency and exigency. It cobbles together sloppy systems that work just well enough to get by, out of whatever happens to be available at the time.

I would contend that if you were to attempt to select against those traits that supposedly lead to GLBT, you would discover that you had also selected against the very traits that lead to normal sexuality. They are in fact the very same traits. The only real difference is whether, in each individual case, all the parts of that complex and cobbled-together system just happened to fire in the "right" sequence, or whether a glitch occurs somewhere down the line. Attempt a eugenics program to get rid of the "glitches," and I'd say the end result will simply be to diminish the overall fecundity of your test population.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Relee » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:58 pm

After a point I think we should breed out gender entirely, and only reproduce artificially. There's only so much stuff in the universe, and as long as we live as we do our biological perrogative is to expand untill we hit a barrier, and humans are very good at getting past barriers.

But that's kinda long-term.

We're not a product of intelligent design... YET! But one day, maybe.

I've written about that sort of thing in depth before:

http://relee.livejournal.com/543170.html
http://relee.livejournal.com/555261.html
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Skatche » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:05 am

Yes, now there's a fantastic idea. Get rid of a fantastically successful and elegant evolutionary trait that gives us increased adaptability and viral resistance in favour of our clunky, technological "solution" to whatever we thought the problem was.

(Actually, I'd love to know how exactly one could actually breed out gender. It strikes me as kind of an oxymoron.)
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Alfador » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:01 am

Relee wrote:After a point I think we should breed out gender entirely, and only reproduce artificially. There's only so much stuff in the universe, and as long as we live as we do our biological perrogative is to expand untill we hit a barrier, and humans are very good at getting past barriers.


I'd say a finite universe is a barrier we'd do well to try to get past. Hey, we might succeed!
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby strange_person » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:48 am

If it's a real universe, there is no "past." A better term would be cosmos, and the larger structure a polycosm.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Relee » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:36 pm

Skatche wrote:Yes, now there's a fantastic idea. Get rid of a fantastically successful and elegant evolutionary trait that gives us increased adaptability and viral resistance in favour of our clunky, technological "solution" to whatever we thought the problem was.

(Actually, I'd love to know how exactly one could actually breed out gender. It strikes me as kind of an oxymoron.)



Hah, well, not the best turn of phrase. XD

Actually I'm suggesting that at some point we'll be able to create artificial life-forms that are almost indistinguishable from current living creatures, and we will be able to modify them intelligently. We'll also be able to hot-swap the cells in our bodies with these artificial cells, becoming effectively immortal and able to adapt to any situation.

So you see, it's not a 'clunky' technological solution. Rather, it's the ultimate end of the torturous system of life and the beginning of something better.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Idiot Glee » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm

Oh you just want to be a sugar powered plush robot.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Skatche » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:36 pm

Relee wrote:Actually I'm suggesting that at some point we'll be able to create artificial life-forms that are almost indistinguishable from current living creatures, and we will be able to modify them intelligently. We'll also be able to hot-swap the cells in our bodies with these artificial cells, becoming effectively immortal and able to adapt to any situation.

So you see, it's not a 'clunky' technological solution. Rather, it's the ultimate end of the torturous system of life and the beginning of something better.


You're missing the point.

Any living creature, whether "natural" or manmade, is a sitting store of energy and chemicals and other such resources. That immediately makes it adaptive for a creature to be able to invade your body and use your energy to make more of itself. Hence: viruses. We're here today because evolution came up with an elegant defense: viruses exploit your own genetics, so shuffle up the genetic structure every generation! And we do this through sexual reproduction.

So now you've got your immortal body, and you're kicking around indefinitely. Your genetics don't change during that time, and so if they can be exploited (and believe me, they CAN be exploited), eventually they will be. And now you're stuck personally managing your own genes and immune systems. Even with the aid of futuristic megatechnology, I don't think I'd want that burden. I'm perfectly happy to just fuck and eventually die.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Monocheres » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:52 pm

Another way to put what's wrong with Relee's proposal is: The evolutionary game doesn't stop just because you decide to quit playing. Ask Wells' Martians.

On a related note: If you read Brave New World these days from the perspective of an evolutionary biologist, or even just a run-of-the-mill epidemiologist, you just have to laugh. Trying to apply industrial-era techniques of mass production to biology is a fool's errand. Pathogens just love monocultures. Those batches of 72 identical Delta or Epsilon clone slave workers, made to order to work in the factories for the Alphas and Betas, would be fertile territory for a nice superbug plague. Especially with all those "Orgy-Porgy" rituals they used to keep the masses happy. "Everybody belongs to everybody else." Heh. Watch just how fast your carefully controlled economic system collapses when the refrain becomes "Bring out your dead!" Oh well, I guess "Ending is better than Mending" after all...
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Relee » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:01 pm

We don't have to keep working on a genetic base. I started writing these things because I thought it was a far more realistic form of nanotechnology. An artificial cell, based on nanotechnology, able to replicate the function of any cell in nature, and more by design. with super-cells working together intelligently, no natural disease could hope to win. By that point, you'd be more worried about a Grey Goo scenario than a randomized plague.

Evolution has been effective for sustaining life, but it's also horribly cruel. In order to improve or adapt, at least one generation has to be born, and ultimately the previous generations have to die off as things change. But with what I'm suggesting, people will be able to live forever and adapt within a single generation. So, even if things change, so can the people, intelligently.

Besides being a plausible sci-fi application of nanotechnology, I was also thinking this would be a great method for slower-than-light Space Travel. You'd be immortal and able to survive on energy alone for ages. A hundred year journey or even more wouldn't be unreasonable then.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Skatche » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:25 pm

Relee wrote:We don't have to keep working on a genetic base. I started writing these things because I thought it was a far more realistic form of nanotechnology. An artificial cell, based on nanotechnology, able to replicate the function of any cell in nature, and more by design. with super-cells working together intelligently, no natural disease could hope to win. By that point, you'd be more worried about a Grey Goo scenario than a randomized plague.


You have to realize, though: there's no strong distinction between Grey Goo and any other virus. There's evidence, for example, that the Hepatitis viruses came from a once-healthy liver cell. Even if we build our bodies based on completely alien metabolites and so forth (which in itself would cause a lot of problems) in order to escape any virus based on DNA, a few errant cosmic rays is all it takes to create a plague that can fuck us up just as bad as any virus we currently know of.

Nor would making our super-cells "intelligent" cut it. Cells are already very good at what they do, and are quite capable of intelligent collaboration. At best, I'd think, we'd be able to do the job about as well as nature, and probably not even that. In any event, you can't have both an indefinite lifespan and disease resistance at the same time.

(Actually, lest I state the case too strongly, I should mention that you probably could have an indefinite lifespan and disease resistance; it's just that the longer you lived, the less your disease resistance would be worth, and eventually some bug would get you. So an "indefinite" lifespan would still only be so long. You'd still need sexual reproduction or some other gene-recombination technique to ensure the survival of your species.)
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby strange_person » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:05 pm

Skatche wrote:Even with the aid of futuristic megatechnology, I don't think I'd want that burden. I'm perfectly happy to just fuck and eventually die.
I was with you right up to that last word. As it stands, our bodies have some built-in self-destruct mechanisms that I'd prefer to disable, and certain types of injuries (like missing limbs or organs) tend to scar over rather than healing fully. Patch up the stuff like that, so the competent, cautious people have a realistic shot at living for more than a millennium and the crazy idiots can bounce back from anything that doesn't kill them outright, then I'd be satisfied.
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Re: Amazon censors GLBT pr0n!

Postby Monocheres » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:11 pm

Relee, our evolved bodies are vulnerable because malevolent viruses attempt to subvert the normal workings of our cells. If we simply replace those bodies with engineered ones based on non-biological technology, but every bit as complex as the originals, it won't really change the game, it'll just move it onto a new playing field.

We have a model for this already: The highly-engineered device you are sitting in front of right now, and the global network connecting that device to millions of others. They are all vulnerable to malevolent programs that attempt to subvert the normal workings of our devices ... and they're called viruses too, as it happens.
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