Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Wizard CaT » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:23 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124379172024269869.html

STEPHANIE SIMON and MIGUEL BUSTILLO wrote:George Tiller, one of the few doctors in the nation to perform late-term abortions, was shot and killed at his church Sunday in Wichita, Kan., where for decades he operated an abortion clinic that drew women from across the world.

Police detained Scott Roeder about three hours after the shooting, said Johnson County sheriff's spokesman Tom Erickson, according to the Associated Press.

Wichita police said a suspect will be charged with murder and two counts of aggravated assault for allegedly waving a gun at two people as he fled the church.

Dr. Tiller, who was 67, leaves behind his wife, Jeanne, their four children and 10 grandchildren. In a statement, the family called the shooting "an unspeakable tragedy...particularly heart wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace."

Dr. Tiller's willingness to perform abortions even into the ninth month of pregnancy made him a longtime focal point for anti-abortion protests. In 1993, he was shot in both arms by an abortion opponent, but was back at work the next day with the protection of federal marshals as bodyguards. His bunker-like clinic, on a freeway frontage road in Wichita, has been bombed, blockaded and vandalized. In 1991, protesters blocked the clinic for six weeks, drawing national attention.

Just a few weeks ago, vandals cut the wires to his security cameras and then cut a hole in his clinic's roof, a family friend said.

Dr. Tiller, who called access to abortion "a matter of survival for women," refused to give up his practice.

The body of a shooting victim is removed from the Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, Kan. Authorities said late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed at the church.

Dr. Tiller was working as an usher, welcoming worshippers to services at Reformation Lutheran Church, when he was killed with a single gunshot shortly after 10 a.m. The assailant brandished his gun as he fled, but witnesses were able to jot down his license-plate number.

Wichita police said they believed the shooting was an isolated act, not part of a conspiracy, but the investigation continues with help from the FBI and state police.

President Barack Obama said he was "shocked and outraged" by the killing, saying that profound differences over abortion "cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence." Activists on both sides of the abortion debate were also quick to issue denunciations.

"This is a horrible tragedy," said Troy Newman, an abortion opponent who organized regular protests outside Dr. Tiller's clinic.

Mainstream leaders of the anti-abortion movement have long denounced violence, saying they don't condone the killing of fetuses or physicians. On Sunday, one such activist, Marjorie Dannenfelser, who runs a group called the Susan B. Anthony List, said she condemned "this anti-life act in the strongest of terms."

The killing broke several years of relative calm in the abortion wars and came at a time when President Obama has been urging a search for common ground. Four abortion providers were murdered in 1994 and two in 1998, according to the National Abortion Federation, which represents abortion providers. Bombings, arsons, death threats, stalkings and burglaries targeting abortion providers have dropped significantly in recent years.

"We had begun to relax into thinking that phase [of violence] appeared to be done," said Suzanne Poppema, an abortion provider in Seattle and the chair of the board of Physicians for Reproductive Choice.

The U.S. Justice Department on Sunday offered protection to other abortion doctors. The Federal Bureau of Investigation often gets involved in murder investigations that draw national attention or in the case of smaller towns that have limited police resources.

In Boulder, Colo., Warren Hern, a longtime friend of Dr. Tiller, blamed the killing on anti-abortion rhetoric. Dr. Hern -- who also takes late-term patients -- noted that he and Dr. Tiller have both been targeted by name by anti-abortion activists who call them baby killers and mass murderers.

Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist, rejected the view that fiery rhetoric against abortion doctors could incite violence. He went on to compare Dr. Tiller to a Nazi war criminal and suggest that the physician invited his death. "He was a murderer who reaped what he sowed," Mr. Terry said.

Dr. Tiller said in a past interview that he didn't enter medicine expecting to perform abortions. At first, Dr. Tiller said, he did abortions only in the first trimester. But he gradually began to take on patients further and further along in their pregnancy.

Kansas law prohibits aborting fetuses that could live outside the womb -- a milestone that is generally reached midway through the second trimester -- unless two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function." Dr. Tiller cited that reason for aborting hundreds of viable fetuses over the years at his clinic.

Dr. Tiller was well-known for providing abortions for women who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses. Some of his patients, he said, were drug addicted and some were as young as 9 years old.

Write to Stephanie Simon at stephanie.simon@wsj.com and Miguel Bustillo at miguel.bustillo@wsj.com


Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist, rejected the view that fiery rhetoric against abortion doctors could incite violence. He went on to compare Dr. Tiller to a Nazi war criminal and suggest that the physician invited his death. "He was a murderer who reaped what he sowed," Mr. Terry said.
~Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky.~ The Creation of Éa
Damn you Clemson University, you deleted the 'sploding Kay that Etherwings uploaded eons ago!
User avatar
Wizard CaT
Watermelon Graduate

  Offline
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Kosmonauta » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:19 am

there was a recent case, in Brazil, where a 9 year old girl had an abortion 'cause (obviously) her body was too young to handle the pregnancy and there were serious threats to both her life and the babies life if continued. A local bishop excommunicated the doctor and the mother for performing the surgery.
To make it even worse, the baby was fruit of a rape. When a reporter asked the bishop why excommunicate the doctor and the mother but not the rapist (who was, by the ways, the step-father) the bishop answered that the rapist crime was smaller than the doctor's crime because it ended a sacred life.

I wish I had been excommunicated... it's been awhile I left christianity, but my name is still on their books as a baptized christian. A friend of mine actually asked to be excommunicated and the priest denied the request. What is the importance of having a name in a book, I wonder...

Erm, anyway, I wonder if that bishop would excommunicate the killer or the victim in this case...
Kosmonauta
Aw, they grow up so fast!

  Offline
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Relee » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:36 am

Wow, that guy was hard-core. Living in Witchita of all places, and doing what he does.
-- Relee the Squirrel --
User avatar
Relee
Watermelon Graduate

  Offline
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:25 am
Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Universe 2

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Idiot Glee » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:54 am

I am an idealist in a way. I believe that democracy, equality, and freedom are the ideals of humanity. These are things that must be guaranteed for people to live happy lives. If a person cannot control themselves without the state treating them as a puppet, deciding what substances their body can ingest, what pictures they can view, what stories they can write and read, where they can live, what they can do... If a person is not free, they will be unhappy.

I believe in freedom of speech. I believe it is one of the most important rights a person can exercise, to express opinions, to observe others opinions... This right is absolutely necessary.

People should be free, but freedom is frightening, and even dangerous!

Absolute freedom cannot defend itself. This includes absolute freedom of speech. People are prone to make bad decisions, even if they logically follow the available data even if they're educated, humans make mistakes. You can not trust people to filter out speech that is dangerous, you can't expect them to recognize it. Humans are bad at making decisions on moral issues.

To use an over the top example of how humans are bad at moral decisions: Hitler thought eugenics was a good thing. He did, he believed humanity was best off purifying itself. And he wasn't alone, it was a respected science before pictures of death camps, piles of corpses, and testimony of victims changed the opinions of the world.

Sometimes a legitimate reason for a restriction on free speech exists---preventing violence is a damn good reason.

Keeping right wing gunmen from going into places of worship, this case, the unitarian church shooting a few months back... Keeping madmen from killing is a damn good reason to restrict speech.

Methodology---how you restrict, and what you restrict---is too complex to detail. How you restrict a necessary right is a much harder question to answer than what you should restrict in this case.

How you restrict incitements to violence, and try to prevent madmen shooting churches up is something that would take a god to answer perfectly. People are too flawed to perfectly police themselves... but perfect can NOT be the enemy of the good. People must restrict themselves to be safe and maintain freedom.

Without some necessary restriction, freedom can turn to tyranny. Without some necessary restriction, people can (and as we see here have) terrorize each other. Without some necessary restriction, unchecked incitements to violence can rob us of our freedom.

By allowing elements of the anti abortion movement to incite violence, we risk our freedom. Allowing a vocal, violent, minority (those who support violence to stop abortions in this case) to bully the rest of society we lose our freedom.

In World War Two, American propaganda spoke of four freedoms as fundamental to mankind: Freedom of Expression, Freedom of Religion, Freedom from Want, and Freedom from Fear. Norman Rockwell did iconic American paintings to represent them. These rights can not be played against each other, you can't have freedom from fear if people speak incitements to violence. You can't have free speech if you are afraid you'll be shot for your views, or if your starving, or if you can't choose your own religious path.

What terrifies me is how effective terrorism is, kill an abortionist and all the others live in fear.

What frightens me worse, these problems are as real today as yesterday, and will be real tomorrow.

Freedom, humanity, life... It's a constant struggle of the well meaning against the well meaning with no guarantee that you are right. And safety and freedom ebb and flow like trash caught in the waves, sometimes closer, sometimes farther.

Even more disturbing, we're unlucky to all live in a time where freedom appears to ebb, and fear to flow. The perception is depressing, but maybe I'm wrong.

Why is the thought that I may be wrong about the world being shit not comfort me?
Hello!

And, "One thing there's no getting by—
I've been a wicked girl," said I;
"But if I can't be sorry, why,
I might as well be glad!"

-Millay
User avatar
Idiot Glee
1000 Post Forum Master!

  Offline
 
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:26 pm
Location: Here

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Coda » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:37 am

I've lived in Wichita since I was a kid.

I don't get to hear the end of this.

I'm hearing about it everywhere I go. There's no escaping it.

Even the staunchest anti-abortion people I know think this was over the top. This is vigilante justice that would have been more in-place in the Old West. Maybe he was a criminal, maybe he deserved it, but he deserved it properly judged and convicted in a court of law, not gunned down ad hoc in cold blood.
User avatar
Coda
Magickal Melon 666

  Offline
 
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: Holy crap, Coda set an avatar

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Anna » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:27 am

To protect life means to protect life, and not to end life with shooting someone down.
That's abortion 67 years later.
User avatar
Anna
Worthy Forumite

  Offline
 
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:45 pm
Location: Germany, west, not south.

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:04 pm

The American Taliban.

Intolerable.
Jennifer Diane Reitz
'Giniko-chan'
Image
User avatar
Jennifer Diane Reitz
Creatrix

  Offline
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Olympia, Washington

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Wizard CaT » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:01 pm

Coda wrote:Even the staunchest anti-abortion people I know think this was over the top. This is vigilante justice that would have been more in-place in the Old West. Maybe he was a criminal, maybe he deserved it, but he deserved it properly judged and convicted in a court of law, not gunned down ad hoc in cold blood.


I honestly believe that is just what they say in public.


Kosmonauta wrote:I wish I had been excommunicated... it's been awhile I left christianity, but my name is still on their books as a baptized christian. A friend of mine actually asked to be excommunicated and the priest denied the request. What is the importance of having a name in a book, I wonder...


Well he could have taken a shit on the altar. In the shape of a pentagram. During Mass.
~Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky.~ The Creation of Éa
Damn you Clemson University, you deleted the 'sploding Kay that Etherwings uploaded eons ago!
User avatar
Wizard CaT
Watermelon Graduate

  Offline
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Kosmonauta » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:38 pm

Wizard CaT wrote: Well he could have taken a shit on the altar. In the shape of a pentagram. During Mass.


Or just perform an abortion on some raped 9 year old girl that would otherwise die (she and the baby, by the ways). Apparently that would be ending a life, not saving one.
I still think all I needed to do to stop being considered a christian by the church should be stop going to the church. Go figure.
Kosmonauta
Aw, they grow up so fast!

  Offline
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Coda » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:52 am

Wizard CaT wrote:I honestly believe that is just what they say in public.


You'll have to define "they," because if it's the obvious selection you're including me in it, and it's not true for me. :/

Kosmonauta wrote:I still think all I needed to do to stop being considered a christian by the church should be stop going to the church. Go figure.


This isn't really true -- and I'm glad it isn't, really. If not going to church makes you not a Christian, I'm in trouble, and a lot of other people are too. (I don't have anything against going to church -- I just haven't found one that actually satisfies me since a whole lot of drama went down at my old church.)

That said, some denominations and some sects are really legalistic about tracking membership status. The Mormons in particular are REALLY bad at this. You can't get out on your own will; they have to kick you out. The Baptists require letters of recommendation from your old church if you move. (Not all churches actually follow this rule, though.)
User avatar
Coda
Magickal Melon 666

  Offline
 
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: Holy crap, Coda set an avatar

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Wizard CaT » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:53 pm

Going to church isn't a requirement for all sects of Christianity.
~Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky.~ The Creation of Éa
Damn you Clemson University, you deleted the 'sploding Kay that Etherwings uploaded eons ago!
User avatar
Wizard CaT
Watermelon Graduate

  Offline
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:32 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby RaharuAharu » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:04 pm

Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:The American Taliban.

Intolerable.



THIS

Domestic Terrorist, and should be treated as such.
Hello! *~( ! !)>
Alien Parachronism
Image
User avatar
RaharuAharu
1000 Post Forum Master!

  Offline
 
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:09 am

Re: Abortion Provider Is Shot Dead

Postby Wic » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:37 am

Wizard CaT wrote:Going to church isn't a requirement for all sects of Christianity.


Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland for example, only requires you to go to church when you're baptized, and to confirmation camp when you're 15. In old people's tongue the Lutherian Confirmation is same as a permission to take a wife or a husband. This comes from the old way when priests didn't wed people outside the church.
It's that my homunculus inside my head doesn't even try to understand the outside world. He thinks it's a video game and smashes the buttons at random to find the key where you shoot the lasers.
User avatar
Wic
Apple Class

  Offline
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:04 pm


Return to The Political Arena

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron