Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Anna » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:28 am

viewtopic.php?f=12&p=18607#p18607
Jennifer's "read first"

7%?
I didn't know that, but it was always clear for me that a lot of comunication is lost by writing.

To write is a form of art.
And who can say that that she/he is perfect in art?

And for me there is also the problem of an other language.
I can't dive in into interestig discussions, I simply miss the words.
It is easier to be the clown, not using many sentences, no many words.
And believe me, to be forced to stay out of an interesting theme is frustrating.
Sometimes my concentration lacks, and I do understand only a part of it or there are misunderstandings.
"What? The opposite was meant?"

Well, I'm happy that I can understand a bit more than 7% of an english battle of words.
But it is not enough to resist the... surf, breakers... "Brandung"
...using a german term complicates all and makes it ridiculous, forms it into a self parody which was never intended to be.
So, YOU can speak english, - and you still love to misunderstand your opponent?
Bah, shame on you!
//]
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Coda » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:45 am

I'm curious where that 7% figure came from, to be honest. I personally estimated it to be quite a bit higher -- somewhere between 40% and 60%. Maybe that's just because I'm a child of the Internet (I've been online since like 1994) and I went through my social-formative years with primarily text-based communication.
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Kosmonauta » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:53 pm

May I say, slightly off-topic, that i just love reading unusual phrase constructions from foreigners, in all languages?
To distort the usual logic of the language in building ideas put the reader in a position where he has to step out of his known sets of basic rules to comprehend what you are saying. It has been suggested that the verb be is responsible to most of the sloppy thinking in the world today. How we construct our thoughts and ideas is directly connected to how we organize our language.

I personally speak 3 languages, two of the same root. I know basics of japanese and hindi but don't have nothing even remotely close to fluency in those. I think this grants me an advantage in stepping out of my basic set of rules, or at least being able to adapt it other manners of organization of ideas. It helps me, I think, to understand and be understood more, even in my own native language.

However, despite the common set of rules that organizes ideas and builds language for all of us, there will, always, be misunderstanding. We are still individuals, perceiving the world in particular manners and only barely agreeing with common perception. The old question, how do you know the blue I see is the same blue you see? Due to that there is no rule that is as absolute as to give no space to different interpretations. Babel still falls even when all speak one language, because at some point there will always be a misunderstanding.
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:50 pm

Coda wrote:I'm curious where that 7% figure came from, to be honest. I personally estimated it to be quite a bit higher -- somewhere between 40% and 60%. Maybe that's just because I'm a child of the Internet (I've been online since like 1994) and I went through my social-formative years with primarily text-based communication.


I got it from one of my science magazines, But I cannot remember which one; Science News, New Scientist, or SciAm. One of them.

But here it is in Wikipedia as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication

There is, however, a bit of controversy over the whole thing, and it tends to insult professional writers, which leads to more argument over the validity of it. There is fuss over what exactly is meant by 'communication', and there is much mud-slinging in any case.

So, is it true? Who the hell knows. But - I think we can all agree on this much- the lack of nonverbal communication clearly causes great misunderstanding and trouble, and it does seem clear that text alone is not sufficient to encode an entire personality, or even fully communicate a tone of mind and emotion, and so text should not be trusted to provide such things.

I think there is also a difference when we are speaking of the work of a very competent, even professional writer, in a body of text carefully composed and revised multiple times versus a post on a forum; a work of careful effort compared to an attempt to speak in text in the moment.

I would offer that if the 7% bit is true, it applies to that situation specifically, and I can easily believe it; how can any one truly get a sense of any other person from a handful of posts on a forum? Impossible, I say. Especially when strong emotions are flowing.

The real point of offering the 7% communication line is to make people realize just how faulty posting is as a form of contact, that text is incredibly weak in terms of creating any valid sense of one another, and that we should never take our internet drama as a serious thing. That is the point, and the value; even if untrue, 7% is so very low that it makes a person wake up a bit.
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Coda » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:00 pm

I suppose that's a valid point. I don't know about the exact number, but if you take face-to-face communication and remove all of the cues except for a literal transcription of the words, you have lost a great deal of information. If you take communication that was specifically crafted for optimal delivery in text -- an essay, for instance -- the loss isn't so bad.

The whole phenomenon is why you see me using a glut of emoticons. :P
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Kosmonauta » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:31 pm

Emoticons confuse me so
I mean, some are pretty straight forward :kiss:
But the ascii emoticons are so culturally embeded that they should count as language. Sure i got used to understanding a wide variety of them after they were massively used by my friends, but there is always a new one, comming from lord knows where, that i can usually not relate to until it gets used in enough situations that i can associate a feeling or emotion to it.

'Sides, people can always react weirdly, like thinking that your smile means you mocking them. They do that even in person.
Communication is, overall, not all as effective as we want it to be, honestly.
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Monocheres » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:07 am

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy wrote:The Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.


:mrgreen:
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Plasman » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:54 am

Ha ha ha ha!!! Good one, Mr Mon'!

I already made a comment re: the new "Read this" disclaimer back on Monocheres' "So long ;] " post.
But I feel like saying something else (as the audience visibly slumps in their seats).

The problems with communication aren't necessarily limited to written text. I've seen many people get into heated arguments, often leading to physical attacks, over ridiculously trivial things. In fact, my family is really good at getting into shouting matches at the drop of a hat, which makes me wonder if maybe I'm adopted... :mrgreen:

I've found that some of the main causes of an argument getting out of hand are:
>> A misunderstanding of the terms - ie. each person is actually arguing about two separate issues, because something in the debate has not been defined clearly (for example, what constitutes "gay marriage"). Once the confusion is cleared up, the debate usually resolves itself, and frequently it turns out that the two people were actually arguing the same viewpoint. :P
>> A desire to "score points" off the other person. In other words, the argument isn't really about the subject matter any more, but about who comes off the best. They will probably try to change the subject, and go off tangentially in order to keep the fight going. It's not really worth debating the issue with someone playing this game, as they're no longer interested (if they ever were) in being won over.
>> One (or both) of the parties being emotional, intoxicated :drool: , or otherwise incapable of looking at the problem calmly and rationally. Again, it's impossible to deal with someone who is so angry that they can't think straight, so it's best to leave them be until they settle down.

There's probably more you could add to the list, but you get the idea.
Basically, the whole point of a debate isn't to try and win, no matter what. Rather, it's to try and resolve the issue at hand - and yes, sometimes it means that you'll be on the "wrong" side (if only partially).
But will stomping your feet and waving a big placard in the other person's face really change their mind? Or would you be better off finding a more practical way to get your point across?

Remember - you're allowed to be wrong. ;]

Okay, shutting up now.
If this last post seems ridiculous, please disregard it. Thank you. ;)
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By the way I made two level packs for Boppin' in case anyone is interested... :oops:
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Re: Jennifer's "read first"

Postby Monocheres » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm

Plasman wrote:Ha ha ha ha!!! Good one, Mr Mon'!


I have found that the best arguments hang in the air in much the same way that bricks don't.
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