CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Zcross » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:18 pm

Let me give my compulsory greeting:

Hello,

My name is Zachary Cross.

I am here to state the truth.

Before I begin what might be considered a tirade, let me begin a rather large and arduous process of explaining in detail why this post is not in violation of any of the guidelines you have set. Likewise, let me point out a few instances where you have contravened your own guidelines. The basic quote you receive when you are registering is as follows:

“You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country.”

To be fair, these are exceedingly nebulous terms, but after looking through a few dictionaries, I can supply decent definitions of these words.

“Abusive-
1. Using, containing, or characterized by harshly or coarsely insulting language: an abusive author; abusive remarks.

2. Treating badly or injuriously; mistreating, especially physically.

3. Wrongly used; corrupt: an abusive exercise of power.”


This will not be harsh. This will simply be the truth. I will not insult you because I have no need to. I will simply point out what you have done in the past. If it is insulting in any way, I take no responsibility.

“Obscene-
1. Offensive to accepted standards of decency or modesty.
2. Inciting lustful feelings; lewd.
3. Repulsive; disgusting.
4. So large in amount as to be objectionable or outrageous.”


You might have had John Solomon if he had taken the time to do his review on your boards, but regrettably, I do not need to swear. Quite the contrary, I strive to be the paradigm of language and make my criticisms known in the most well-defined manner.

“Vulgar-
1. Lacking refinement, cultivation or taste.

2. Conspicuously and tastelessly indecent.”


I have already shown my vernacular to be excessively refined and I will be dealing with the issue at hand with taste.

“Slanderous-
1. (In the case of Law) Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.”


You might think that this is the case, but unfortunately, my statement is true. And if it is true, then it isn’t slander.

“Hateful-
1. Eliciting or deserving hatred.
2. Feeling or showing hatred; malevolent.”

You may not believe that I don’t hate you. Well, I really don’t. I feel pity. If I hated you, I would be spamming and flaming left and right. However, I am taking the time to write a developed critique. This should give a better view of the good faith I am expressing.

“Threatening-
1. To express a threat against.
2. To be a source of danger to; menace.”


I do not threaten with anything. Not physical harm, nor damage to this forum or anything.

“Sexually-oriented-”

This term so ridiculously ill-defined that it could apply to everything from homosexuality to someone commenting that physical sex is defined by genetic chromosomes. I would assume that this points to attacks based on gender or gender orientation. Neither is present in this post.

“Against laws”

This is protected by free speech, I am afraid.
Now, imagine my surprise when I logged on. Following this declaration, I found the next set of rules:

“Jennifer Diane Reitz is the owner and Moderator of the Unicorn Jelly Forums. These forums exist at her will, because of her work, for her pleasure. Guests here are present at her sufferance. Ultimately, as owner, her word is law. This is her home, and members are expected to be polite guests within it.Jennifer may ban, block, erase, or eliminate access to any individual for any reason whatsoever, as is her right as owner of the forums. She may define the tone and conditions of any situation within the forums. She may decide and select the members of the forum, and set the rules of conduct as she desires.In order to maintain the nature of the forums, Jennifer may take whatever action she deems necessary, and she may also permit chosen others to act as extensions of her will, if she desires.
This forum belongs to Jennifer Diane Reitz. Her word is law here. Any aspect of the rules below may be changed at her will.”


Amazing. Simply amazing. If I might make a suggestion, try posting this on the registration screen. I would guess that the number of new members would decline very sharply as a result, because I find this notice extremely authoritarian in its phrasing. I would assume that this is why you would ban me or block this post if you chose to do so. Most likely because you found it irritating. Well, the beauty of doing such a thing is that you will effectively be proving my point. So, please do so at your leisure. You will note that later in this constitution of rules and regulations, there is an issue with arbitrary hate. You might assert that the rules do not apply to you, JDR, but this does not reflect well on a leader if they refuse to follow their own rules.

”The Constitution Of The Unicorn Jelly Forum:
Jennifer Diane Reitz, or her acting deputies, has the power to prune, eliminate, or edit content, or ban individuals on the forum if their content acts to deliberately perform the following Forum Violations, and guests of the forums may expect these rules to apply to them.
The List Of Forum Violations
Forum Violation 1 - The deliberate creation of disharmony/ trolling / flame war
This is defined as any arbitrary and deliberate attempt to invade the forums, attack the forums or forum members for the sole purpose of causing harm, unhappiness, social disharmony, anger, or emotional pain. This includes initiating flame wars, trolling to create conflict, and the willful destruction of the peace. It is to be understood that the point of this forum is to create a positive and enjoyable environment for reasoned and rational discourse. This foundation comes before all else.”


I am afraid that you do not have me under this. The key word here is “SOLE purpose.” If I am here for any of these things, I am also here to bring change and improve this website and the internet as a whole, as well. You cannot paint me as a simple troll, because I have no such destructive purpose. I am actually trying to make this a more positive environment for EVERYONE. That is including the people you disagree with.

”Forum Violation 2 - Hacking and destruction of the Forum
Deliberate hacking or damage to the forum itself will not be tolerated in any form whatsoever.”


Whatever computer skill I possess, I am neither using it for destructive ends, nor do I need to. Words are more powerful that hacking or banning.

”Forum Violation 3 - posting of images or content designed to harm the existence of the forum or the members of the forum
Materials which violate federal law or which would destroy the lives or livelihood of members of the forum, or which otherwise would lead to criminal proceedings against the forum, the members of the forum, or the owners and administrators of the forum will not be tolerated.”


I have not posted any pictures.

”Forum Violation 4 - invasion by miscreants
Any mass invasion from another forum, board, organization, group, or association of the Unicorn Jelly forums by hostile and abusive individuals intent on the disruption of the peace and the elimination of goodwill will not be tolerated.”


The key word here is “MASS invasion.” Everything here is in the plural. I am but one individual.

”Forum Violation 5 - invalid promotion / spam
Invalid promotions or spam is defined as advertising or promotion of websites, materials or products irrelevant to the members of the forums, or which have been inserted into the forums by nonmember guests or noncontributing, nonmutual arbitrary members for the purpose of material gain or the creation of disharmony.”


I also have done none of these. I think you will find this post very relevant.

”Forum Violation 6 - gross incivility
Blatant acts of bigotry, arbitrary hate, the promotion of irrational, narrow, and hateful belief systems, and the destruction of the public peace will not be tolerated. Racism, sexism, religious zealotry, or any other form of social oppression is not allowed here.”


This is not motivated by hate or by a hateful religion. It is merely done for truth. I believe if one were to delete this post or ban me, this rule would most likely apply. After all, it is more civil to respond with a well-thought argument rather than a ban.

”The Rights Of The Unicorn Jelly Forum Members:

1. All forum members have the right of free speech and communication.

2. All forum members have the right of promotion of their own personal works and creations on the forum.

3. All forum members have the right to be treated with civility, kindness, and compassion.

4. All forum members have the right to disagree with anything whatsoever, so long as they remain civil and rational in doing so.”

I intend to be doing all of these things. I shall be using my free speech to try to spread compassion for ALL people, even if their views do not match your own. And I am being more than civil here. Try comparing this to John Solomon or Encyclopedia Dramatica and you will see how nice I am being by comparison.

”The Expectations For The Unicorn Jelly Forum Member:

It is expected that a Unicorn Jelly Forum member will, as much as possible, contribute to the community of the forum in a civil, compassionate, and above all rational manner. As a general rule of thumb, it is expected that the Unicorn Jelly forum member should act as though they were communicating with other forum members face to face, and not hidden by the anonymity of the internet. In short it is expected that they should act with social grace as best as one can, as if one were visiting the home of a respected individual.

That respected individual is specifically defined as Jennifer Diane Reitz.”


And this is precisely what I intend to do. If I were face to face with you, and I noticed a problem, such as a fire, an insect infestation or some other issue with the house, I would POINT IT OUT. I do not think that it is impolite to call attention to something that is truly wrong.


”Resolution of disagreement with the above document:

There is one option for remedy should anyone be unable to abide by the provisions of this document.

Don't be here.”


Well, I am currently here and abiding.

Now for the next half: the critique.
For a start, I will say right now that your comics are irrelevant to this debate. I truly do not care if they are the next artistic masterpiece or on the other end of the spectrum. Likewise, your gender status or beliefs are not part of this debate. You could be male, female or anything else, and I would still be writing this.

My initial complaint is your other website: Transsexual.org.

Now, if you would follow a hypothetical scenario:

Let us assume that someone is unhappy with his or her gender. Before the advent of the internet, one would look up information relating to their condition through a psychologist or perhaps look up said information in a book or other secondary source. However, in the new age of information, websites make it possible to gain all sorts of new information freely. Unfortunately, this has a tendency to lead to people not looking closely enough at the source of the information. I will say right now that your personal experience makes you a very good source for information relating to transgender topics. However, professional data that has been gathered by experts, such as psychologists, sexologists or other such people would aid greatly in this endeavor. Unfortunately, as far as I have seen, the entire website consists of your own opinions. I am well aware that the internet is made by the right to free speech and opinions, but with such a defined domain such as Transsexual.org and with the serious nature of the topic, it might be better to make any disclaimers more pronounced, or, at the very least, add more cited information from multiple sources. My biggest issue with your website is the fact that it effectively provides the information necessary to pass the psychological tests given by psychologists to either allow or deny gender reassignment surgery. This could be extremely dangerous to people who are merely psychologically confused rather than being truly transgendered. Please take better care in presenting this information.

Also, some of your various posts off and on this website are extremely spiteful. You have threatened death against John Solomon, you have unduly attacked Christianity and other religions, and a multitude of other malignant actions. If you wish me to cite them, your blog posts (saved by the Portal of Evil, thankfully) will very effectively back me up. You are allowed your own opinions, but to threaten physical harm and to show religious intolerance is not only against your own terms of service, it is simply mean.

I could go on, but it is not worth the time. I am fairly sure this is going to be deleted anyway. Do me a favor, JDR. Take the time to at least respond, rather than simply deleting it. Even you must admit that I am taking a tact that is not of your normal troll.

As for my suggestion, it is simple. Please follow your own rules, as it lends credibility and warrants respect from other members if you do so.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby strange_person » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:38 pm

If you feel the need to write pages and pages explaining how you haven't violated the letter of the law, consider the possibility that you may be attempting to justify a violation of it's spirit.

Zcross wrote:My initial complaint is your other website: Transsexual.org.

Now, if you would follow a hypothetical scenario:

Let us assume that someone is unhappy with his or her gender. Before the advent of the internet, one would look up information relating to their condition through a psychologist or perhaps look up said information in a book or other secondary source. However, in the new age of information, websites make it possible to gain all sorts of new information freely. Unfortunately, this has a tendency to lead to people not looking closely enough at the source of the information. I will say right now that your personal experience makes you a very good source for information relating to transgender topics. However, professional data that has been gathered by experts, such as psychologists, sexologists or other such people would aid greatly in this endeavor. Unfortunately, as far as I have seen, the entire website consists of your own opinions. I am well aware that the internet is made by the right to free speech and opinions, but with such a defined domain such as Transsexual.org and with the serious nature of the topic, it might be better to make any disclaimers more pronounced, or, at the very least, add more cited information from multiple sources.

The Esteemed Creatrix owns that domain name, and is within zir rights to do with it as zie pleases. If you think you could do it better yourself, feel free to buy out the one-S version of the name (currently occupied by porn).
Zcross wrote:My biggest issue with your website is the fact that it effectively provides the information necessary to pass the psychological tests given by psychologists to either allow or deny gender reassignment surgery. This could be extremely dangerous to people who are merely psychologically confused rather than being truly transgendered. Please take better care in presenting this information.

Yes, the information available allows someone to "cheat" on the gender-identity tests. There is a sound philosophical basis for this: a case study of someone who cheated on the test and was entirely satisfied with the results. Access to resources such as those presented on the site would have saved quite a bit of time and trouble for the author's past self; since there might, reasonably, be people in comparable circumstances today who could benefit from the same kinds of things, it is only merciful to make them available.

If you are concerned that someone might, on the basis of the information presented, conclude that they are transsexual and (on the basis of that conclusion) proceed with an expensive and nonreversible surgery which they later come to regret, I suggest that you take the COGIATI, examine it, and submit a point-by-point proposal for it's refinement.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Wizard CaT » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:40 pm

What?
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Monocheres » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:01 pm

*Sigh*
Time for a couple moldy, but nevertheless true, truisms:

Zcross: You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Jennifer: Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Zcross » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:20 pm

To put it fairly, if I were to follow the "spirit" of the law, I would simply be another one of the masses heaping unconditional praise upon JDR for her glorious works. The "spirit" of the law on this site is against dissenters, which makes the "free speech" JDR glorifies meaningless if it means that contrary views are not allowed. And before the point is raised, let me say now that "dissent" means disagreement presented in a reasonable manner, which is different from flaming.

I have examined the test and I find many of the questions to be extremely stereotypical and somewhat outdated. I cannot submit a point by point revision of JDR's gender test, because I, as well as JDR, do not have the credentials to assemble a psychologically sound test to effectively determine transgenderism. I would leave such decisions up to trained professionals, which unfortunately JDR is not.

Also, the case study you have mentioned is one out of thousands and thousands of people that potentially have used the information to cheat the gender test. Forgive me if I sound somewhat suspicious, but is JDR going to be inclined to post a case study of someone that was UNHAPPY with the results? Also, information is dangerous in the wrong hands. If the "quick fix" of going under the knife rather than being psychologically examined first is presented, how can it be said to be "better"?

Yes, the site is belongs to JDR, but responsibility must be taken for sensitive information. That is the limit of free speech. If you shout "fire" in a crowded theater, you will face the consequences. Likewise, if you short-circuit psychological examinations, you will effectively be cheating psychologists of the ability to help people.

As for the honey comment: John Solomon was vinegar. Portal of Evil was acid. Encyclopedia Dramatica was freaking magma. My comment may have some bitter taste, but on the whole, it has been crafted to be as nice and sweet as possible. I assure you that outside of this collective there are far more malign responses.

Well, I have yet to be flamed off the earth yet, could my response be taken seriously? Let's wait to see what JDR has to say about this.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby strange_person » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:59 pm

Zcross wrote:unconditional praise upon JDR for her glorious works.
Zcross wrote:which makes the "free speech" JDR glorifies meaningless
Look a bit more closely and I think you'll find that a lot of the discussion here is analysis and constructive criticism, rather than mere praise.
Zcross wrote:I have examined the test and I find many of the questions to be extremely stereotypical and somewhat outdated. I cannot submit a point by point revision of JDR's gender test, because I, as well as JDR, do not have the credentials to assemble a psychologically sound test to effectively determine transgenderism. I would leave such decisions up to trained professionals, which unfortunately JDR is not.
If you think it's so
Zcross wrote:dangerous in the wrong hands
but you're not qualified to fix it yourself, why not find someone who is qualified and can fix it, getting the point-by-point recommendations and sending them in, instead of just coming here to kvetch about it?
Zcross wrote:Forgive me if I sound somewhat suspicious, but is JDR going to be inclined to post a case study of someone that was UNHAPPY with the results?
Once again, please provide a concrete example rather than ominous speculation.
Zcross wrote:Yes, the site is belongs to JDR, but responsibility must be taken for sensitive information. That is the limit of free speech. If you shout "fire" in a crowded theater, you will face the consequences. Likewise, if you short-circuit psychological examinations, you will effectively be cheating psychologists of the ability to help people.
Access to the "right" answers does not prohibit the testee from providing the "honest" ones. I agree that providing a mechanism to effectively bypass certain examinations robs psychologists of power, but only the power to hinder.
Zcross wrote:Well, I have yet to be flamed off the earth yet, could my response be taken seriously?
Of course it was. You clearly read the rules, so you should know that a hostile response on my part would be in violation of them. The forum constitution was created to insure that the community here would be friendly, and it seems to be succeeding in that.
Zcross wrote:Let's wait to see what JDR has to say about this.
Your ninth use of that ill-starred TLA, in just two posts. Would you mind considering some of the alternatives?
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Monocheres » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:01 pm

Zcross wrote:To put it fairly, if I were to follow the "spirit" of the law, I would simply be another one of the masses heaping unconditional praise upon JDR for their glorious works.


Oh, please. Roll a right-angled D-12 for hyperbole damage.

Zcross wrote:The "spirit" of the law on this site is against dissenters, which makes the "free speech" JDR glorifies meaningless if it means that contrary views are not allowed. And before the point is raised, let me say now that "dissent" means disagreement presented in a reasonable manner, which is different from flaming.


Listen, I've had my share of dissent with Jennifer. It's no secret that I have some quite different political views than her. Yet I haven't been banned, or denied in any way. In fact, I've been encouraged. I've expressed myself passionately at times-- but not, I'd maintain, with the high dudgeon you're indulging in. As a consequence, I flatter myself that my "disagreement presented in a reasonable manner" got through, in at least one instance. Actually, Jennifer investigated my claims on her own, by poking around the net, and found enough corroboration to convince herself.

Gentle persuasion. Try it on for size.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Quaeras » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:26 pm

All I heard here was:

"Block of Text"

I'm Intolerant.

Don't like a website? Don't visit it. *boggle*.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Zcross » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:26 pm

Alright, let me further explain:

The heaping of praise comment was made because I have seen JDR make dangerous comments such as threatening physical harm on John Solomon (a point none of you has tried to deny, amusingly enough) and apparently nobody wished to tell her that she is put of line (The thread has gone by the wayside, sadly, but is still archived). Sure, you might offer some "criticism" for her comics, but when it comes to some of her hardcore beliefs that the Pope deserved to die, Christianity is a lie and there should be free gender reassignment surgery for all who ask, nobody apparently has the guts to really go toe to toe and say, "JDR, you are wrong." I suppose I intend to take that on myself. You all revere her as the Creatrix or whatever and seem to accept what JDR says.

As for the test, the ONLY person who can change the test is going to be JDR, as she owns the site. You would expect me to find someone else to fix it? The people who would be able to compile such a test are the exact ones who are having their safeguards blown apart by JDR posting the gender test answers. Even if I managed the resources to compile such a test, there is no guarantee that it will be accepted. You would ask for a concrete example of foul play? I would love to track down the people who have used her site's answers to cheat the test, but the problem is that it is impossible to find that many people. Maybe JDR has some e-mails from dissatisfied people, but of course, we will never know, will we? (That is another one of my issues with the site, it is completely one-sided. I did not find any articles on the danger of gender reassignment surgery). I simply speculate on that issue because I find the odds against the idea that every single person who cheated the test was happy about it. The "power to hinder"? This is what a test is for! Sure a final exam is going to "hinder" your graduation, but that does not mean that you are better off cheating, because you know that you are an "A" student. It's to help determine whether you really have done the work to graduate or not. Likewise, these tests are in place to divide those who are really transgendered from those who are simply confused.

I am attempting some gentle persuasion in this instance, but you must understand that I am uneasy with the amount or ire I see in JDR's posts. The referring to the Bible as a "bronze age book" where women are "cattle" is really insensitive. I go back to my previous statement that some of JDR's comments do not comply with the very rules she set down. But apparently, being the Creatrix and all, there is no one able to enforce the enforcer. I simply want to call her on it.

"'Block of text' I'm intolerant," eh?

"3. All forum members have the right to be treated with civility, kindness, and compassion."

If you are not willing to discuss this rationally like some of the other members are, I would advise you to please find another topic for your labeling, ok?

You want me to find another site? Ignoring a problem will not make it go away. I have a right to petition JDR to change her methodology. This is the only place where I can take my request directly to the source. That is what this particular section of the forum is for. Site Improvement.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Tychomonger » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:45 pm

Zcross wrote:As for the test, the ONLY person who can change the test is going to be JDR, as she owns the site. You would expect me to find someone else to fix it? The people who would be able to compile such a test are the exact ones who are having their safeguards blown apart by JDR posting the gender test answers. Even if I managed the resources to compile such a test, there is no guarantee that it will be accepted.

You seem to care enough that surely a better test being in existence would be a good thing for you. Perhaps you would be better off setting up a competing transsexuality information website, done in a way you think is more socially responsible. If it is the better site, it will draw traffic away from Jennifer's, and provide them with the correct information.

The "power to hinder"? This is what a test is for! Sure a final exam is going to "hinder" your graduation, but that does not mean that you are better off cheating, because you know that you are an "A" student. It's to help determine whether you really have done the work to graduate or not. Likewise, these tests are in place to divide those who are really transgendered from those who are simply confused.

To extend that metaphor, the checkstops currently in place in the transition process more closely resemble standardized testing than they do a hand written final exam. There is a school of thought that standardized testing is actually detrimental to the education process (which I happen to agree with).

"'Block of text' I'm intolerant," eh?

"3. All forum members have the right to be treated with civility, kindness, and compassion."

If you are not willing to discuss this rationally like some of the other members are, I would advise you to please find another topic for your labeling, ok?

You want me to find another site? Ignoring a problem will not make it go away. I have a right to petition JDR to change her methodology. This is the only place where I can take my request directly to the source. That is what this particular section of the forum is for. Site Improvement.

Woah, settle down there, I think you're a little gun shy. Quaeras's comment was well within the common level of discourse here. Being dismissive may be rude, but it is not hostile or cruel.

I personally do not expect you to be banned (assuming things continue as they have been going), I think you have been very civil and present a rational argument. I have no reason to ban you, so thats one of the 8 people with that power that you don't have to worry about.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Zcross » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:14 pm

I should make my own site? The issue with that, of course, is that the prospective traffic is going to weigh the options. Will people really value a balanced opinion with both sides of the argument? Or is someone who is genuinely convinced that they are transgendered going to look at the site that is going to tell them that going under the knife is wonderful and gives them the quick answers? If there is one thing I have learned from the internet, it is that instant gratification is its founding principle. I am afraid that if I were to craft a better test, those who are convinced that they are transgendered (whether they truly are or not), would not accept it. Human nature is to find the answer one wants, not the one that is necessarily true.

And regarding if the actual psychological test is faulty or not, it does little good to say that a test is faulty when the current solution is to just hand out the answers.

As for the rudeness, if I was a little sharp, then you have my apology. You must understand that I found the response somewhat rude and I suppose standards on other forums I have joined are somewhat more stringent that what goes here.

I am glad to hear that the moderators are allowing me to remain here for the time being. I suppose JDR is the final challenge.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Alikat » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:21 pm

Oh, I might ban Zcross, after all I have full moderater privileges here now. I immediately considered it because you've evidently created an account for the explicit purpose of trolling here, you've called Jennifer out on her own forum in what looks like an argument intended to persuade her forum readers to have a lower opinion of her. You have couched the argument in a thinly-veiled open letter format, but the direct third-person references to her seem directed at the other forumites.

Zcross, on what planet do you think someone will pay to buy a server, go to the trouble and expense of hooking it up to a Co-Lo setup and installing and setting up a forum on it, just to provide a place for people from a slam site to troll it and talk shit about the owner?

And since you mentioned the Portal of Evil, I'm sure you know that they have this rule called The Prime Directive. Hell, if you're who I think you are (Tommah), you've more than bent that rule, you've broken it into pieces and formed a crude middle finger pointing at the hosts of both sites.

Now, I am probably going to wait until Jenny checks in and reads this crap before I ban you and delete your stuff, Zcross, but I'd just like to let you know that it's me, not her, that will be doing that, because I can, and I want to, and for no better reason than that, and I hope that rankles a bit. :)
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Alikat » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:34 pm

By the way, Jennifer, when you've had a chance to read this, could you ask Stephen to get the IP address of Zcross so we can post it here? I think that someone over at POE with admin access might compare it with Tommah's IP and if it's him I am fairly certain that they'll want to IP ban him, which would be best for you, for them, and for him. That kid's obsession with you is really creepy.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Monocheres » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:37 pm

Zcross wrote:I have seen JDR make dangerous comments such as threatening physical harm on John Solomon (a point none of you has tried to deny, amusingly enough)


Well in my case it could be because I only discovered Jennifer's work and these forums last fall, and have no idea who John Solomon is. But I won't deny that Jennifer can be extreme in her own way on certain issues that happen to be hot-buttons for her. I can very well imagine her going ballistic on someone who hit those hot buttons in a confrontational and disrespectful way. I reiterate: I am willing to challenge her about these things. But I'm also willing to concede that her hot buttons didn't just come from thin air. She's got definite grievances that ought to be addressed too.

Zcross wrote:and apparently nobody wished to tell her that she is out of line


I refute your thesis thus: *kicks his own butt* I'm an existence proof of the contradiction! There are certainly others, and better, for instance Draque.

Zcross wrote:You all revere her as the Creatrix or whatever and seem to accept what JDR says.

We respect her, not revere. We admire her talent. We call her "Creatrix" for fun, with tongue firmly planted in cheek -- dude, get a sense of humor!

Zcross wrote:I suppose I intend to take that on myself... I am attempting some gentle persuasion in this instance, but you must understand that I am uneasy with the amount or ire I see in JDR's posts.


Well, we are uneasy too, but do you not see the irony in your position? You think you can fight ire with ire? A defensive-sounding yet confrontational manifesto is supposed to be "gentle" persuasion?

I don't think anyone is going to chase you out of here, including Jennifer. But it might help your cause if you could mellow out a bit.

BTW, stop using TLA's, especially when talking about a human being. ;-) It's rude. People have names, not model numbers.
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(formerly known as Synetos Protos ... but Monocheres was an even cooler character)
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Tychomonger » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:59 pm

Alikat wrote:Hell, if you're who I think you are (Tommah), you've more than bent that rule, you've broken it into pieces and formed a crude middle finger pointing at the hosts of both sites.

Not everyone who disagrees with Jennifer is Tommah.

Alikat wrote:By the way, Jennifer, when you've had a chance to read this, could you ask Stephen to get the IP address of Zcross so we can post it here?

You can look it up yourself, Alikat. Just click the quesion mark (right next to the quote button). As it happens, ZCross's posts have all been made through different proxy servers it seems. He has the right to that anonymity, I think.

But as for your reasoning for wanting to ban him, I think it is flawed. This place is specifically set up for discussing the sundry works and websites of Jennifer Diane Reitz. It is the primary function of it. This is a civil discussion about her transsexuality.org website. It certainly seems fair game to me.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Alikat » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:17 am

By the way, this is what Zcross is referring to when he keeps repeating the libellous claim that Jennifer threatened someone:
http://unicornjelly.com/oldforums/viewt ... p?p=143692
Jennifer wrote:Solomon is hiding because he is a coward who enjoys belittling other people from behind a safe veil of invisibility. His is like many sites on the internet, who mock and insult while lacking any courage to own their own words. In public, these cowards would not dare to say the same things, because they know full well that someone just might come after them, knock their yapping blocks off, or in a worst case scenario, go to their house one night and kill them. It happens. Far too often.

Now, it looks like she was speaking entirely in the hypothetical abstract here. She refers to an unspecified "someone." She's expressing her opinion that people say things on the Internet anonymously that they wouldn't dare say in person because their fighting words would eventually trigger a violent response from one of their targets. In no way, shape, or form is she actually threatening to do so herself. In point of fact, she's mostly a shut-in with a panic disorder that makes travel highly unlikely, and is in poor physical condition, having suffered a heart attack just two years ago.

Now, on to our "new friend" Zcross. He already mentioned the POE, and then he mentioned the John Solomon nonsense. Well, what do you know, that Solomon reference is one of Encyclopedia Dramatica's favorite bedtime stories about Jennifer. And who came to this site, then to POE, got booted from here, and claimed over there that he wasn't breaking the PD because he originally heard about "JDR" from the ED? Why, our "old friend" Tommah!

So Tommah, while Jenny was speaking in the hypothetical abstract about how the main reason cowards post slam reviews anonymously is that they are afraid of a comeuppance, your pals over at ED have Jennifer's actual residential address posted in the middle of a transphobic manifesto of seething hate speech, and it is basically a "call to arms" for any two-bit psycho in driving distance of her home. Awesome, you are bitching about a non-threat while your pals have put her and her family in actual danger of harm. How proud you guys must be of your all-around superiority!
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Tychomonger » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:21 am

Accusing ZCross of being Tommah is also quite libelous, Alikat. //]
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Aealacreatrananda wrote:When I envision a far far future.... I don't fuck around.

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.
--The Doctor
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Alikat » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:24 am

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Tychomonger » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:27 am

Or a man in a duck suit.
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Aealacreatrananda wrote:When I envision a far far future.... I don't fuck around.

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.
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Re: CALL FOR ACTION

Postby Alikat » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:37 am

If he's PRESENTING as a duck, it would be RUDE of me not to TREAT him like a duck! :)
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