Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Anna » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:02 am

http://may-welby.blogspot.com/
http://www.thescavenger.net/glbsgdq/sex ... 56345.html

Sexless in the city: a gender revolution
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sexless-in-th ... -q1l2.html
JOEL GIBSON
March 12, 2010

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THIS Mardi Gras, Norrie received a gift that no other androgynous person in NSW has had before.

The night before the parade, the postman brought a certificate from the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages that contained neither the dreaded ''M'' nor its equally despised cousin, ''F''.

Instead, it said ''sex not specified'', making the 48-year-old Sydneysider, who identifies as neuter and uses only a first name, the first in the state to be neither man nor woman in the eyes of the NSW government.

Because Norrie was born in Scotland (and used the surname May-Welby), it was not a birth certificate but a Recognised Details Certificate - the version given to immigrants who have changed sex and want it recorded.

The law had not considered that anyone might want neither sex recorded but was able to accommodate the request when presented with evidence from two registered doctors that Norrie was physically and psychologically androgynous.

Norrie has since begun doing the rounds to have all offending records changed.

''I went into the bank and the woman's eyes lit up when she saw the certificate, and she said, 'What a good option','' Norrie said yesterday.

Centrelink was flummoxed and had to call in computer programmers to tackle the task, but agreed to find a way.

Norrie was registered as male at birth, began hormone treatment at 23 and had surgery to become a woman - but has since ceased taking hormones, preferring to live as neither male nor female.

''It's not a detail I think should be part of my identity,'' neither he nor she said. (Norrie prefers ''zie''.)

''I think there are a lot of people who would like to have this kind of certificate and not just people who are physically different. Many women would like to have them because sex can so often lead to discrimination.''

A spokeswoman for the Attorney-General's department confirmed it was the first such certificate to state non-specified gender, and that even intersex children have their sex determined within weeks of birth.

Tracie O'Keefe, from the transgender group Sex and Gender Education, called it a breakthrough for children whose doctors and parents are confused about their sex at birth and are often operated upon.

A Catholic ethicist, Nicholas Tonti-Filippini from the John Paul II Institute, said birth certificates should also record no gender in such cases, updated with ''any changes to phenotypic gender''.

He said there was a trend against the practice of selecting a sex for intersex children, which could mean more androgynous people in future.


By the way, in a german forum there was an idiot and said that "it" has to make a choice for a toilet for male or female, this would make clear the gender.
I answered that Norrie would go to the one toilet which is free and CLEAN!
Because males can't targeting, so the choice what toilet to take would be very easy.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Coda » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:05 am

Yeah, we were just talking about this over in Gaia TG. Here's the link we used:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/03/11/au ... ed-gender/

We're having a bit of a debate over whether "zie" and "hir" are artificial or not.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Zilla » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:15 pm

I think it's a fair deal, more fair than anything else, really. It's really silly how many things gender designation is "required" for arbitrarily, when really, it shouldn't be a consideration for anything except when selecting potential reproductive mates. (Even love ought to be genderless!)

Honestly, all the requirements they say for like "women can't be firefighters" I think are EXTREMELY misguided; it may be less likely that a woman's body is qualified for the job, but that doesn't mean that they can't attempt, held to the same standards that all firefighters should be held to, and allowed to serve if they pass the requirements.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Coda » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:02 pm

Zilla wrote:Honestly, all the requirements they say for like "women can't be firefighters" I think are EXTREMELY misguided; it may be less likely that a woman's body is qualified for the job, but that doesn't mean that they can't attempt, held to the same standards that all firefighters should be held to, and allowed to serve if they pass the requirements.

Hear here! That's exactly right.

Then again I shouldn't be surprised so much. *laugh*
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby draque » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:34 pm

Zilla wrote:It's really silly how many things gender designation is "required" for arbitrarily, when really, it shouldn't be a consideration for anything except when selecting potential reproductive mates. (Even love ought to be genderless!)


I think it's more justified there than elsewhere, though. Sexual attraction is such an odd beast, and one that's so out of our control that I'm not sure you can really give any kind of "should" in regards to it. Is it racist that I'm not typically sexually attracted to black guys? No more than it's sexist that I'm not typically attracted to women.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Zilla » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:53 pm

but that "typically" clause is the difference!

You don't rule them out just because they're black or female, like most would. There's nothing wrong with not finding one sex in general attractive, but that shouldn't be a hard-and-fast rule for anyone. If they close themselves to the entire opportunity for love to bloom, they may miss a very good and strong relationship.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Coda » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:09 pm

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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Zilla » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:12 pm

>_<

I hope this works out and gets publicity, and serves as a precedent for fighting for human rights.
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby mwchase » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:38 pm

Not directly related, but I was poking around the online news for this, and I have a question:

Is there some repository out there of horrendously unflattering photographs, or something? Or perhaps someone tasked with finding the chaffiest of the chaff from whatever photos are available? I mean, seriously, there's a line between not using touched-up photos, and using photos that look like the jpeg algorithm used them as a chew-toy. It's about a mile wide.

Ugh... just venting, because I got frustrated by news outlets with less taste than the SMH displayed in laying out the quoted article. (They seemed to favor a low-res, out-of-focus picture of Norrie wearing a baseball cap backwards.) (It kind of reminds me of a parody Kamishibai I saw a while back, in which one character was played by a screencap of Sailor Moon, resized to hell and back.)
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Wizard CaT » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:20 pm

Anna wrote:By the way, in a german forum there was an idiot and said that "it" has to make a choice for a toilet for male or female, this would make clear the gender.
I answered that Norrie would go to the one toilet which is free and CLEAN!
Because males can't targeting, so the choice what toilet to take would be very easy.


I'm a guy, and I would use the female restroom if I could. Though one of our forumites is a janitor and said the male room has higher average filth, but the women's room has higher peak.

Zilla wrote:Honestly, all the requirements they say for like "women can't be firefighters" I think are EXTREMELY misguided; it may be less likely that a woman's body is qualified for the job, but that doesn't mean that they can't attempt, held to the same standards that all firefighters should be held to, and allowed to serve if they pass the requirements.


What country are you in? If you live in America, you can rest easy knowing you will die in a fire because they hired a woman firefighter who can't do her job. You don't even NEED to pass the requirements. No, I'm not joking. In the U.S. we have what is called Affirmative Action. Despite not meeting requirements, you need to select a less qualified candidate for diversity!

A fire chief actually recorded women trying out for the department. They of course didn't prepare, they couldn't lift the equipment or do anything. It was illegal to record tryouts. He was sued when he didn't hire them, and then fired when he showed the video, which was also received by the press.

My dad was a fire chief (retired, not dead. I find it is best to make that when I use the past tense considering the profession). When he still went into fires, his partner was a woman. She should not have been his partner. One rule of course is your partner needs to be able to carry you, incase you get knocked out. There was no way she could ever do that for my dad. I'm not saying he is fat, but you have him at 190lb or something, plus 50lb of equipment to live in a fire, plus the 50lb she has on. It wasn't physically possible for her to do it. Sure, she knew all the rules and was competent, but basic requirements…
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby Zilla » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:14 am

Yeah, I disagree with the way Affirmative Action is implemented that still exacerbates discrimination. It's definitely a flawed system that needs reconsidering.

It'd be nice if employers couldn't get away with discharging people for hidden reasons, but that still seems to be the case. I'm absolutely certain i wasn't hired at McDonald's because I was trans, and I suspect that was why I wasn't hired at Target. I had to interview as male for my next two jobs just because I was tired of being rejected based on that (since then, I got much better at passing, and it'd be really weird for me to interview as male as I haven't been male for 3 years).

Diversity shouldn't be a free ticket any more than it should be a handicap. In a perfect world, people would just be people, and we'd judge people "by the content of their character."
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Re: Sexless in the city: a gender revolution

Postby strange_person » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:34 pm

Affirmative Action is kinda stupid from an economic perspective. All it should do is make sure that there's a certain minimum critical mass of non-discriminatory employers in any given industry. Given that, if the minority in question actually is equally- or better-qualified, other employers will be forced to hire and fire strictly on the basis of competence, just to compete.
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