Alikat is on Temporary Ban

[Tychomonger]

It has been brought to my attention that Alikat has been abusing her power. I have put her on a seven day ban for the moment.

The moderator logs show Alikat editing Shackler's posts and deleting them, and his account now has no posts. His account name was also apparently changed to Schickelgruber and back before being purged.

When Shackler came back in a different account to post about his removal, that too was deleted. Here is a screen shot of that post.




Posts are not to be deleted, and users are not to be banned lightly.

[Shackler]

Thank you for doing this. Though I do not intend to continue posting here to the degree that I've maintained in the past, it is good to see that some action has been taken, that I shan't simply vanish without a trace.

[strange_person]

I, also, appreciate this.

In the interest of full disclosure, Shackler sent me the same post, word-for-word, as part of a private message on the Koala Wallop forums, in hopes that I would relay it.

I (Shackler) have been summarily removed from the UJF. In the interest of having my voice heard, I will send you my final post, which I have thus far attempted to post thrice, only to again vanish each time. I would like it if, as a favor, you would repost it there, though I will admit that this action could very well result in problems for you. Even if you're unwilling to post it, at least read it and understand what's happened; you've probably already guessed, but you're one of the better users on that forum, and I would like for at least someone to know why certain discussions no longer make sense. Everything in this message is completely true.

Today, I (previous username: "Shackler") attempted to log in to the UJ forums only to find that my account wasn't working. Thinking we might have had a repeat of yesterday's incident, where my account name was changed to "Shicklegruber" in an apparent reference to Hitler, but when I attempted to find my new account name by examining some of my old posts, I was surprised to see that all my posts, as well as my account, had apparently been deleted with no explanation or justification. I feel that this is likely due to my disagreement with user "Alikat," whom I believe to have been behind the Shicklegruber incident, as it was accompanied by one of my posts being edited to insult me and praise her. When I reported this yesterday, my username was restored and the posts in question disappeared; today, when Alikat threatened me with "real abuse of power" and I reported that, as well as some other remarks by Alikat that I (and others) believed to be accusatory and offensive in nature, my account and posts simply disappeared. As far as I can tell, the threat of abuse of power has been carried out.

In the interest of maintaining an even-handed summary of events, I would link to my own posts in the discussion that might have been found controversial, but, as they have vanished, it will not be possible for me to do so. This leads to my next problem-- there appears to be a general administrator/deputy consensus, found here, that posts should not be deleted, even if offensive. Owing to this, I have never, not in my year or more of posting here, not since the misunderstanding on the old version of the forum, felt that my posts and account were in any real danger of being arbitrarily deleted. Given that I now appear to have gone down the memory hole, with only strange inconsistencies in old threads to show that I was once a member here, that doesn't seem to ring true anymore, nor does this site's claim of offering a place where its members can freely communicate and have their views respected.


1. All forum members have the right of free speech and communication.

2. All forum members have the right of promotion of their own personal works and creations on the forum.

3. All forum members have the right to be treated with civility, kindness, and compassion.

4. All forum members have the right to disagree with anything whatsoever, so long as they remain civil and rational in doing so.


This site claims to grant its users certain rights and privileges. Do these rights apply to everyone, or only to those who are willing to toe the party line? I admit that I have at times forwarded opinions that are far from the routine here, but I feel as if I have done so with good intentions and with the desire to help foster interesting and enlightening discussion. I'll further admit that I am (or rather was) far from the most popular user on the forums, largely based on those same opinions, but I feel that one's rights should not be determined by one's popularity or opinions alone.

I would like to have an explanation as to why I disappeared, but more importantly, I would like the members of this forum to have that explanation as well. That is why I have been persistent in attempting to recreate my account in order to post this; were I only self-interested, I would be happy to take it to the administration by email instead.

Reply, or don't; post it, or don't. The choice is yours.

Thank you, Shackler, for trusting me with a thing like that.

[Jennifer Diane Reitz]

It has been brought to my attention that Alikat has been abusing her power. I have put her on a seven day ban for the moment.

The moderator logs show Alikat editing Shackler's posts and deleting them, and his account now has no posts. His account name was also apparently changed to Schickelgruber and back before being purged.

Dammit. That is going WAY too far. That would count as crazy-kookoo-go-nuts behavior. I did not expect such a thing, that is just plain wrong.

Shackler: I want to apologize, on behalf of my forums, for this incident, and I hope that you will forgive this incident; this is not what I intended when I invested administrative power in a select team of long-standing forumites. Please accept my apology for this; if I could have prevented it, I would have.

Tychomonger: It was clearly wise that administrative power was placed in multiple hands; I was away in Seattle so I could not have responded promptly, fortunately you did. Thank you for taking action. I will ask Stephen today (we are going to Bellevue to get his teeth cleaned, so again I will be away) if Shackler's posts can be recovered at all. Maybe the forums have been backed up; if so, this situation may be properly repaired. I will try.

Alikat: I am disappointed; I trusted you with power.


Alikat 67.153.184.194 Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:59 pm Successful administration login

Alikat 67.153.184.194 Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:00 pm Deleted user
» Shackler

Alikat 67.153.184.194 Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:20 pm Deleted user
» Shackler

I don't care if you think a forumite is the devil himself; it is not permitted to erase a person here just because they have pissed you off. That isn't fighting trolls or griefers, that is indeed abuse of power. I support Shackler's right to speak; he has always been civil, and he is not in any reasonable members mind -I honestly think- a griefer. You just got more angry than your reason could support, I think.

I am loyal to my friends, and you are my friend for decades; but my loyalty is not blind, and it ends at irrational injustice.


I hope we all can move past this event in harmony.

[Ashes]

You did the right thing Tycho.

[Pharmakeus Ubik]

A plea for understanding in a digitized ethos.

[Anna]

My feelings are...
Yes english is not my native language, and that's why I prefer to be outside in such conflicts, but to be honest, I would do it also in german, to be outside.
At first, I hope that Alikat can calm down, her reaction was a punch like in a western saloon.
She must had the feeling that she can't touch Shacklers mind.

That's what I wrote in a german forum, in a similar situation...
For me that is the risk writing in a forum, writing, not talking.
A talk means you have more informations, a smile, a grin, or a different voice, your body language...
This all is missing in a forum where you can only write, you can't assess what you counterpart means.
So you imagine pictures which can be wrong, well, or maybe correct.
In a emotional dicussion like it was here you can not see or feel how the other side does react.
We have these smilies, but it is only bridge.
And in my situation, there is more risk, I could use the wrong terms, without knowing what I actually wrote.

I am loyal to my friends, and you are my friend for decades; but my loyalty is not blind, and it ends at irrational injustice.


I hope we all can move past this event in harmony.

In a good familiy/friendship/community there must be place for a dispute, even if it is getting harsh.

I once paid a bitter price for loyalty, it was about a herritage, the house I live inside, my half-sister wanted her part of it, means the money, I didn't want to leave, my mother lived here and my brother also, finally she did get her money, without selling the house, I had choose the side. I really loved my sister, we where very close good friends, but this was the end.
Now, this is twenty years ago, we never met again.

I would miss Alikat, really.
So please, you all, calm down.

[Shackler]

For me that is the risk writing in a forum, writing, not talking.
A talk means you have more informations, a smile, a grin, or a different voice, your body language...
This all is missing in a forum where you can only write, you can't assess what you counterpart means.
So you imagine pictures which can be wrong, well, or maybe correct.
In a emotional dicussion like it was here you can not see or feel how the other side does react.
We have these smilies, but it is only bridge.
And in my situation, there is more risk, I could use the wrong terms, without knowing what I actually wrote.

This is a very good point, and I think that it very much relates to the recent problems. I will try to be mindful of this in my further interactions here; in many cases I feel that I may have come off as perhaps overly dispassionate, especially when it comes to some of the touchier/more controversial issues.

[SilverFeathers]

For me that is the risk writing in a forum, writing, not talking.
A talk means you have more informations, a smile, a grin, or a different voice, your body language...
This all is missing in a forum where you can only write, you can't assess what you counterpart means.
So you imagine pictures which can be wrong, well, or maybe correct.
In a emotional dicussion like it was here you can not see or feel how the other side does react.
We have these smilies, but it is only bridge.
And in my situation, there is more risk, I could use the wrong terms, without knowing what I actually wrote.

This is a very good point, and I think that it very much relates to the recent problems. I will try to be mindful of this in my further interactions here; in many cases I feel that I may have come off as perhaps overly dispassionate, especially when it comes to some of the touchier/more controversial issues.

I would like to make a few comments, especially given the RL issues I've dealt with today...

Firstoff, Jennifer, I apologize for the PM I sent you. I should have known you to be a better person than that. It was uncalled for.

And to Shackler... My assumption was that you had been deleted as a user (and therefore all your posts went away) as a result of something excessively inflammatory that you said in the course of that thread . I did not expect Alikat to be removed because, well, she's a Mod. That's not how things are done. At least not in my past experience. This is new. You do seem to have a natural ability to rankle ire among some of the forumites, which spirals into spectacular debates of a nature I can't take my eyes from. There have been times I felt you came across as arrogant, egotistical and an always-right know-it-all. There were times I wrote up a response to you on something and just... closed it. I didn't want to enter into the debate and have it spiral into the level of chaos this has. Which I assumed would only serve to find us *BOTH* banned. Writing it was enough. And sometimes we've agreed, which pleased me oddly.

I realize a great deal of my frustration came from dealing with certain other people around me on a daily basis who exhibit those characteristics that I saw in you. And I should have known something was wrong when I was afraid to agree with you (and one or two others) on certain points as things became more heated, out of fear of being banned from the site. Just for agreeing. And so I turned it around onto you in a very human way. That was wrong of me.

That rambling tirade being said, I want to say I am glad you are back after this incident. I don't pretend to be the smartest person on the forum, I know I'm not. But I know I've learned something from this. Thank you for letting me say it.

[Idiot Glee]

I'd like to just ask everyone to gain perspective, this is a tiny little forum at the corner of web. Getting worked up only makes our hearts beat a little too fast, it doesn't fix any problem we may talk about. So everyone chill the fuck out and agree to disagree sometimes.

[Jennifer Diane Reitz]

And to Shackler... My assumption was that you had been deleted as a user (and therefore all your posts went away) as a result of something excessively inflammatory that you said in the course of that thread . I did not expect Alikat to be removed because, well, she's a Mod. That's not how things are done. At least not in my past experience. This is new.

My goal, as best as it can be achieved, is to offer a forum that is genuinely fair, genuinely honorable; one where the rules, such as they are, are followed in such a manner that no person would feel compelled to call favoritism, or special privilege, or that some are more equal than others. Except for me, honestly... it is my forum, after all. I must be a regent of sorts; I am ultimately responsible for this place. That said, it is my intent to be impartial and just, and as hands-off as is prudent and possible.

That is why I invested admin power in forum members. A power divided is less prone to tyranny.

I love Alikat; I have known her for 25 years. At least. She is an old, dear friend. I value her. But I would ban even one of my own spouses, if they abused power too greatly. I would, and do, allow latitude for people getting over-passionate from time to time. I won't jump on a person because they blew up or had a break down and spouted crap; these things happen. Speech sometimes stops being civil, this is to be understood and suffered, so long as it is not constant, and so long as it is not, say, some newly admitted griefer obvious out to disrupt things. Old friends must be forgiven talking shit.

But there are limits, and when things turn from talking to acting, and that acting is dire -such as the unilateral total erasure of a member- it doesn't matter who the perpetrator is, or how dear they are, or how close to me they are. This is how this forum works; this is how it should work.

I don't like a lot of the attitudes Shackler has. I don't like a lot of the things he spouts. BUT, and this is the key point; so long as he is civil, within reason (as noted, everyone can occasionally get angry mouth), he is a member here, and just because Alikat is my dear friend and I want sometimes to strangle Shackler, fair is fair, and just is just, and favoritism does not apply on the Unicorn Jelly forums.

I may not like what you think or say, but I damn well support and defend your right to say it, within civil reasonableness, on this forum.

I feel really sorry for Alikat right now, this situation sucks, and for her to act that way... something more must likely be going on in her life to make her act that way. She really isn't normally that hair-trigger, I assure you. Normally. So I will try to look into it, if she will talk with me. She may not.

Please try to forgive Alikat; this was extreme, but I assure you that she is the best of souls. She's seen a LOT of hurt. More, by far, than even myself. Whenever I think I had it rough, I remember her life. Be kind to her. Please.

I just want folks to know that I am serious about having a fair and true forum here, one that everyone can feel confident about belonging to.

[strange_person]

I, for one, am perfectly willing to forgive Alikat, as soon as she calms down and promises not to do it again.

http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/02/p ... s_the.html

[draque]

I would, and do, allow latitude for people getting over-passionate from time to time. I won't jump on a person because they blew up or had a break down and spouted crap; these things happen. Speech sometimes stops being civil, this is to be understood and suffered, so long as it is not constant, and so long as it is not, say, some newly admitted griefer obvious out to disrupt things. Old friends must be forgiven talking shit.

Yeah, that's one of the toughest things about moderating a board. You know that I vote to keep more or less everything but spambot posts from being deleted (even in the case of things like "50 Hitler posts") due to the importance of the context they create in terms of the discussion of the board going on, but it's tough to find where to draw the line. Anyhow, I really hope that Shackler's posts can be retrieved. If they can't be, it'll create a real mar on the historical integrity of a LOT of threads, given how long he's been posting here, and how many debates he has participated in. I hear what you say about Alikat, and I can understand how easy it is to ruin good standing in online communities instantly (computers make everything faster!), so I do hope that she comes back and the she's able to participate again... but you've got to take admin status away. There's no way we an be reasonably sure that we can voice unpopular opinions here if that's not done. I save links to threads here on a regular basis and use the reactions to my opinions which helps me to temper myself while writing, so having interactions with other people be wiped away is truly infuriating to me, though.

[Jennifer Diane Reitz]

I am unable to restore Shackler's history; there is no backup. I had hoped there might be, but there is not.

It is very difficult choosing honor over loyalty. This has not been happy for me.

[strange_person]

No backup in the Jenniverse does not mean no backup full stop.

What about the Wayback Machine?

[SilverFeathers]

No backup in the Jenniverse does not mean no backup full stop.

What about the Wayback Machine?

Another larger forum I'm also on was recently destroyed by hackers.... I wonder if that would work for it, too?

[Shackler]

No backup in the Jenniverse does not mean no backup full stop.

What about the Wayback Machine?

They probably haven't indexed recently, and I don't think it's strictly possible to revert; even if it were, that would mean killing everything said since my posts were deleted. We may just have to go by context and what's quoted in this case, though it's not exactly a good option.

[Monocheres]

I am unable to restore Shackler's history; there is no backup. I had hoped there might be, but there is not.

It is very difficult choosing honor over loyalty. This has not been happy for me.

Sigh. Everything Shackler ever wrote here ... gone? Irretrievably. Alikat, you hated another person's words so much ... that you killed them?

Within a handful of decades, all of us here will be dead. One way or another. A handful of decades after that, the children who remember us will all be dead too. A handful of decades after that, even their children, who might remember only the stories they were told about us, will be gone too. That's part of Jennifer's existential horror.

The only thing about us that even has a chance to endure is the work we leave behind. Text, images, information, data ... the recordings that capture our thoughts, the traces that evidence who we were. That's the only sliver of immortality available to us in this world. When future readers read our words, we get a chance to live again, in a small way.

From a certain point of view, to destroy such data is worse than murder. To die is something we can't avoid. But to be erased without a trace ... to leave behind no sign that we even existed ...

To do that to another person's words ... deliberately ...

This is not just an offense against Shackler. It's an offense against all of us. We're all deprived now. Even those who might disagree with Shackler no longer even get a chance to respond.

Worst of all, this is an offense against Jennifer -- ostensibly your friend. It's her forum. It's her property. You saw fit to destroy a piece of it.

To indulge in such hatred, a hatred so consuming that you are capable of utterly disregarding its affect on all around you, that is something that deserves the worst possible judgment we can impose: our pity...

Alikat -- get help.

[Shackler]

Monocheres, that's a little over the top.

[Monocheres]

Monocheres, that's a little over the top.

Okay, fair enough. But at least you had the chance to respond and correct me. And others can benefit from it as an object lesson in hyperbole to avoid.

So don't anybody delete it, okay?

Still ... have any of you ever had the experience of working for long hours on some long, complex, highly-crafted piece of text -- be it prose, poetry, or programming -- only to have your computer suddenly crash on you and lose everything? You try to reconstruct it, but no matter how long you beat on it, you know, you just know that you haven't really reproduced what you had before. That's painful enough. But to also know that someone deliberately caused that to happen, that's got to be far worse.