#301 - Freak


Kaye Haychold's ambitious plan

Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Alikat » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:04 pm

Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:Yes! Mildred Brown was a therapist that helped transsexuals back in the 80's when I lived in the Bay Area and knew Alikat and first met Sandra and Eldenath and rediscovered my old high school best friend Stephen and formed my family and all of that. I didn't ever go to Millie Brown myself, but I knew her and met her at various trannie suppport meetings they had back then.

Muri Kazimahou is very loosely an homage to Mildred Brown.

I totally got the character resemblance, but I must say, Millie is a bit nicer than Muri. :)
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Relee » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:33 pm

Using a proxy is decietful, and I don't like lying. I would say I dislike lying even more than I dislike pirating.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Alikat » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:45 pm

Dear, it's nobody's business but yours what your actual IP address is, proxy services are simply fully-legal methods for preserving your God-given rights to privacy and anonymity. Do you feel compelled to fully-disclose your name and phone number and snailmail addresses to everybody who reads your emails or posts on the Internet, via a signature file? Of course not, that's private info! So's your base IP address. Any data that can be used to track you should be 100% under your control in a free society, and the Internet is as free as societies get. Don't think that just because some operators have ways of inferring some of your contact data from your base IP address doesn't mean they are ENTITLED to any of your actual contact info.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Wizard CaT » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:47 pm

Alikat wrote:
Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:Yes! Mildred Brown was a therapist that helped transsexuals back in the 80's when I lived in the Bay Area and knew Alikat and first met Sandra and Eldenath and rediscovered my old high school best friend Stephen and formed my family and all of that. I didn't ever go to Millie Brown myself, but I knew her and met her at various trannie suppport meetings they had back then.

Muri Kazimahou is very loosely an homage to Mildred Brown.


I totally got the character resemblance, but I must say, Millie is a bit nicer than Muri. :)


I don't really get it, it sounds like Millie was a decent person, but Muri is a bad therapist.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Alikat » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:13 pm

Muri might just have been giving good advice for her splay though. Sometimes therapists have to say things that hurt a lot, to help their clients. I don't see her as a bad therapist necessarily, she just reflects the current state of the art in psychotherapy for her splay.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Anna » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:49 pm

Alikat wrote:... Sometimes therapists have to say things that hurt a lot, to help their clients. ...

Indeed, after every session I felt that it would be better to jump out of the window, or jump from the top of the "parking-house".
That's why I left/running out of the rooms from the next therapist I had, during the second session.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby draque » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:29 pm

Relee wrote:Using a proxy is decietful, and I don't like lying. I would say I dislike lying even more than I dislike pirating.


Proxy servers present IP addresses that are easily recognizable as proxies (there are widely available lists that anyone interested can browse and search through at their leisure). Anyone with the know how to use a proxy will recognize this, and be aware that they are not so much using an alternate identity as a Guy Fawkes mask.

Also.

Alikat wrote:privacy


What she said.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:02 am

Wizard CaT wrote:
I don't really get it, it sounds like Millie was a decent person, but Muri is a bad therapist.


Is she? Consider - if you lived in the American South just immediately after the time of slavery, where stepping out of line or being uppity could get you beaten, horse-whipped, or even lynched, and you were a white therapist counseling a young, poor, black woman who was so borderline in skin color that she sometimes -but not always- could sort-of pass for white, what would you advise her? She can't leave, she doesn't have the means to go North, and even if she could she has no family there. She has a job that keeps her alive, and in which she actually has gotten amazingly far, considering.

Now she tells you she wants to use make-up to pass for white all the time, and she wants to fake her ID and try to be white in that society. She needs your help to get things going... documents and such.

Now would you help her to do this, knowing that if she gets caught it would mean beatings, even lynching - not to mention your career?

Or would you, after weighing the situation, counsel her to try to accept being black, to try to integrate within black culture of the time, and to give up this dangerous idea that would inevitably lead to her death or severe injury?

And if you did that, would you be a good, or a bad therapist?

From a privileged, wealthy, white perspective, far removed from that time and place, such advice seems terribly rude; let her act however she wants, race shouldn't matter, fight for equality, and so forth.

But, within that time, and that place, to tell such a woman, 'Go for it! You can pass for white with a little effort! You can make more money and live better too!' would inevitably mean that one day, when somebody found out -as inevitably they do- she would end up swinging from a tree, or raped and beaten to 'put her in her place'. Such situations did happen back then, and there are various plays and books about this very scenario.

This is what Muri has to deal with. This is the culture of her entire universe, not just a nation, or a part of a nation, or a county. Her entire universe has this culture. There is no where to run, no where to go. Except away on a Mover to some universe where there is no family, no connections, no nothing. To be a permanent exile... who knows what is out there. Mover travel is risky, and permanent.

Plus, it is very hard to get permission to leave, at least on Muri's splay, especially for a Jellese. We can only imagine what tall tales and outright lies Kaye used to get Triuli to intervene for her!

There are times someone from a really harsh part of the world writes to me about being transsexual... someone living in, say, Iraq, or in Malaysia, or in Islamicrapistan or wherever. To be trannie there is death, usually by torture, and the person is desperately poor, there are no doctors anywhere nearby, and they have no means to leave and go to another country. They are stuck, and they are desperate, and they want me to advise them. If they are found out in any way, it means a horrific death, either by their government, or by their family in an honor killing.

How would you answer such a person?

What would you tell them to do, considering their time, and place? Considering they cannot leave, and have no means?

And if you told them their situation as described was hopeless, and that they should just try to survive as best they can, try to fit in because there is no other option but a path of suicide, would you be evil? Would you be evil counseling them to try to live? Or would you be evil telling them to just go for it whatever the obvious, horrific, deadly risk? Which is more evil - telling someone to suffer and live, or to be true to themselves and face torture and death?

I argue that as long as there is life, perhaps there is hope. Dead means no more chances at all, game over. But I can't call either option 'bad' or good'. I don't have the right to judge that. Or the wisdom.

Sometimes, WizardCat, there are no easy answers, and no easy good, and no easy evil, and no way to label advice. Sometimes the situation is just so utterly fucked that the only option is just trying to advise someone to keep away from being painfully destroyed, even if that is a horrible answer to give. Sometimes things are horrifically grey. Sometimes... what is evil in one situation is not evil in another, and what is good in one time is not good in another.





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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Mitsukara » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:16 am

I would venture that, while the individual's ability to understand and choose for themselves may vary, the best thing you can do is educate them on their options and the possibilities of their situation, and help try to make sure they think for themselves. But that's not absolute either.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Relee » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:44 am

Alikat wrote:Dear, it's nobody's business but yours what your actual IP address is, proxy services are simply fully-legal methods for preserving your God-given rights to privacy and anonymity. Do you feel compelled to fully-disclose your name and phone number and snailmail addresses to everybody who reads your emails or posts on the Internet, via a signature file? Of course not, that's private info! So's your base IP address. Any data that can be used to track you should be 100% under your control in a free society, and the Internet is as free as societies get. Don't think that just because some operators have ways of inferring some of your contact data from your base IP address doesn't mean they are ENTITLED to any of your actual contact info.


Well, it's up to each person to choose how far they're going to go, and what they consider right and wrong... These sites, whatever their reason, are intending for people outside of the United States to be unable to view their works. I'm just not comfortable with using a proxy and pretending to be an american, when I can just as easily download pirate copies from a different source.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Wizard CaT » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:05 pm

You answered in another thread that covered this, but I get what you are saying about Muri.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:56 pm

Wizard CaT wrote:You answered in another thread that covered this, but I get what you are saying about Muri.


I'll make a confession, of which I am not proud, which is that far too often, when I am faced with a person in a totally, absolutely fucked situation writing to me begging for help, just begging.... and they are in Islamocrapistan, and they are transsexual, and being slowly killed is considered therapy for their condition should it be found out (say, being hung while standing on a mound of loose sand, so the strangulation lasts potentially for days), and they are desperate, and there is no help for them at all, and no way for them to leave...

Far too often, I just delete the letter. I just can't take it. I just can't face the horror of that. What can I say? Seriously? What? I cannot think of a single thing to say to that, other than 'I hear you, I hear your pain, you are well and truly fucked'. I can't say that! Yet it is the only honest answer. I mean, these people are POOR, they are using a computer in a town they have spend a week walking on foot to reach just to write to me, and they will never, ever have the means to leave where they live, and they will never, ever have any help where they are. They are just fucked. Utterly, completely fucked.

I sit here in my privileged situation, I've had my surgery, I'm living as a woman, I've had all the breaks and all the luck compared to them, and what can I possibly say? Things will get better? No. They won't. Ever. Not for such a person. They will never get better, because when you live in a cardboard shack leaning up against a walled city in the middle of a stinking desert, in a culture still stuck in the 1300's, and your most expensive possession is a goat, then basically, that's it. That's it for you, and I know that and it's too horrible for me to deal with.

I have the same trouble with the blind (or deaf, or both) quadriplegic people with liver damage and kidney failure wanting to go on hormones, typing to me using a stick in their mouth, or by twitches of their one working finger or whatever... what do I say to a transsexual like that? What can I say? Nobody treats them seriously, they say they are treated like they are retarded, like they are objects, like they are animals, they get no respect, and they are stuck, and they are transsexual, and they are well and truly fucked.

I don't know what to say. I've tried saying upbeat things, but... I always feel dirty afterwards. Because I know they are fucked, and any hope I give them is basically a lie. I don't like lying. I'm not good at it.

So my confession is I often just delete these hopeless letters. I probably shouldn't... any response is probably better than none, I get that... but it's just so awful. It's just more than I can encompass. I feel shitty for days after one of those. I feel miserable for the world, for humanity, for the human condition, for all of us, for every living thing in this mortal, crappy cosmos.

I am often Muri. I am often in the position of a therapist, because a lot of people write me every week, from all over the world. And sometimes, I just can't answer. I just can't say anything. Because it is just... impossible.

I feel guilty for not answering such cases. I feel shitty if I try to, because there is nothing I can say, and my mind just goes blank because I cannot encompass that kind of awful.

I feel for poor Muri in To Save Her, you see. And I also feel for Kaye, too, despite her crazy mean going on.

In my view, everyone is a victim. Everyone. Every soul that has ever lived, or ever will live. Victims of an insane, unkind, monstrous horror of a universe. A place where we are born only to know we must die, and during the short path to that end any manner of terrible may befall us, some so awful that there is literally no possibility of hope, sometimes not even to escape by quickened death.

The universe does not contain horror, it is horror.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Alikat » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:16 pm

The universe contains EVERYTHING: numberless horror, and countless pleasures. Most of the things that really hurt are actually pangs of desire for something, be it molecules of free oxygen, or water, or food, or sex, or a new computer. Sometimes we get too much of a good thing, like oxidation, and we burn and it hurts. But it's not as bad as all that, especially considering that we're ephemeral beings that live inside of an immense explosion.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby strange_person » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:14 pm

Perhaps it would be better to forward the 'hopeless case' letters to some other sympathetic person, rather than deleting them outright.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Anna » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:35 am

Jennifer you say, you delete indeed some letters/mails which asking you for help.
Far too often, I just delete the letter. I just can't take it. I just can't face the horror of that. What can I say? Seriously? What? I cannot think of a single thing to say to that, other than 'I hear you, I hear your pain, you are well and truly fucked'. I can't say that! Yet it is the only honest answer. I mean, these people are POOR, they are using a computer in a town they have spend a week walking on foot to reach just to write to me, and they will never, ever have the means to leave where they live, and they will never, ever have any help where they are. They are just fucked. Utterly, completely fucked.

I do absolute understand that it is to much for one person.
I wonder if there in the USA are some TS groups which could collect these calls for help, fact is - they can't really help, but there are hopefully more than one person who can answer to these people, a group which can say much more than a : "I can hear you!". (as you mentioned)

Allright, the problem is, are there outside some TS groups like this?
Maybe a call on your own TS page could find out some, and maybe some groups are able to help, to give a little hope.
Well some TS here in the western hemissphere are also a bit, ahm, strange in their minds, that's why it should be important that there are more than one group.

It is also a fact that being TS in arabian countries are not that supressed as it shows, there must be ways, there must also be some groups.
Long ago, maybe you've forgotten I'd send you an information about TS in the Iran.
(Allright it was in german, and I'd put an english automatic translation as an appendix.)
It was about some kind fascination of the Ayatollahs for this problem, and one conclusion was that indeed, a man could become a woman.
Don't ask me about if this is a correct information, but it is clear, there IS hope, well, some kind of.

I'd read about a saudi arabian TS, her family wanted to disinherit her, but the saudi arabian court said no.
Saudi Arabia, don't ask me for the background story, but what does it tell to us...?

And if someone from this regions is reading this, I hope there a guys with experiences, and maybe they can do something.
I hope it's not some fucking idiots who thinks they could now collect all "evil" with this.
So dear muslim TS, be carefull.


And don't forget, there is a possibility that it is all biological,
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=817&p=12457#p12443
Sadly, an idiot (religios or not) will never accept that.

And here some interesting looks
http://www.al-fatiha.org/

http://www.geocities.com/leylasuhagi/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/leylasuhagi/brain.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

Edit:
...and again the wikipedia link does not work because this last sign )
copy the complete line or
Try this at first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra - from here on you can get further.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby meatwhichdreams » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:29 pm

And sometimes just an "I can hear you!" and "yes, I take your pain seriously" can be words that some one can hold on to and know that the universe just got a little less horrible.
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Re: #301 - Freak

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:39 am

meatwhichdreams wrote:And sometimes just an "I can hear you!" and "yes, I take your pain seriously" can be words that some one can hold on to and know that the universe just got a little less horrible.


I'll... try that, and see how it goes.
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