Does She Need to be Saved?

[ThingOfThing]

From the Book Endpage Footnotes...

And now our story is finished, and we can be glad that everyone -literally everyone who has ever lived, will live, or could live- lived happily ever after. Isn't that a nice ending?

(emphasis mine)

...that means Chou, too, right?

And if so, what precisely will Kaye accomplish in trying to save Chou, if Chou has likely already been "saved" in a far more lasting way?

(And while we're speculating wildly, does anyone else get the feeling TSH ain't gonna have a happy ending?)

[Monthenor]

Well yes, but how is present-day Kaye supposed to comprehend this?

Be assured that in the perfect future there are an infinite number of Kayes revived who take a look around and smack their forehead.

[ThingOfThing]

I figured that much, but I'm wondering what our Kaye is going to find if/when she gets there to grab Chou.

[Wizard CaT]

Maybe she does need to be saved so this eternal perfect future can happen after all.

[SilverFeathers]

They have to save Chou because it is... the butterfly effect. The death of one will cause a chain reaction in all realities that will escalate into the death of all. Just like a butterfly flapping it's wings in China becoming a Hurricane in FL.

...I'll be quiet now.

[Relee]

Awareness of trancendental heaven would alter the course of events that lead to trancendental heaven. It's a paradox. So nobody can know about trancendental heaven untill they die. But try to look surprised.

[Monthenor]

I don't think that logic quite holds up; what if knowledge of transcendental heaven is the catalyst for the creation of transcendental heaven? In that case changing it so nobody knows about it would prevent it from happening.

Your post made the assumption that only our ignorance of heaven leads to heaven, when really your assumption should be that however it happens we shouldn't mess with the timestream leading up to it.

[Iustinus]

Awareness of trancendental heaven would alter the course of events that lead to trancendental heaven. It's a paradox. So nobody can know about trancendental heaven untill they die. But try to look surprised.

Rule one of transcendental heaven is you do not talk about transcendental heaven.

[Monocheres]

Rule one of transcendental heaven is you do not talk about transcendental heaven.

To make omnipitors, first you render rectilands.

[strange_person]

Chou must be saved before the multiversal time-sculpture that is PDH can be commenced.

[Mitsukara]

Several reasons to support TSH's continued weightiness:

One could argue that the journey matters just as the destination does (I'm a broken record and possibly rude in doing so, sorry, but it was pertinent to this conversation I figured).

We don't actually know Kaye is really trying to save Chou; only that her plan involves her. I still hold suspicions that she may have something entirely different in mind. My two main theories (though my theories tend to be wrong) are that she's either (trying to save the Kaywais that sacrificed themselves to dissection for the creation of Kayes (as indicated by the clues Pho has found...),) or something much grander involving something she knows about far-flung futures, somehow pertaining to a computer with an AI. An AI that modeled itself (conjecture) first after Kaywai (Kaye?)...

Either way it's evident that her activities, intentionally or otherwise, do have something to do with Cursor and that very room. Part of her head (or if not, something bizarrely similar) is left behind to prove it, if the Kaywai-stylized avatar isn't enough. This may mean that her actions enable the grand perfect possible outcome to even happen, although there may be some meddling by OoO in there. Then again, there may be some meddling by a mysterious, Unicorn-esque jelly in there also...??

There could be entirely unseen consequences to the story, like how the Krawlni affects things. Meiun Nakimono only dug out the coordinates from his family library (?!) after their "disastrous" visit to the Krawlni cosmos, and the Krawlni was also nice enough (?) to send them back to their own cosmos after the introitus room was seemingly busted somewhat (or at very least lost all connection). I mean, I could be reading too much into what happened in that specific part of the story, but it's just an example to indicate my point, which is that there's all kinds of bigger implications to be had in TSH that might've affected PDH plenty.

I'm interested in seeing what really happens with a Texto when you give him a chance, when his virtues get a chance to reveal themselves. He hasn't been serial killin' much lately, even though he is an overly morbid fellow and busted his way out of his home splay quite merrily and viciously.

As for how it will end... I haven't a clue. I'm not sure what's implied by the terrible scene from the future- was Texto dead? And what the hell was up with Kaye? It's not very characteristic to go gun-waving, so some serious shit must've been going on. What happened to her head? And what was up with that freaky tank Chou was in, like some kind of caged experiment? That's not what they use to make people immortal- recall Pho and Virtue's trips to the sarcophagus suntan bed looking thingy. There are a lot of mysteries about TSH, and answers to come (although I strongly suspect Un, um, Only's participation will still be somewhat mysterious... but what I've seen so far is enough to make me feel pretty sure Chou didn't chop Uni up as Lili supposed, but rather something much weirder- and grander- happened. Maybe. I suspect it will all depend on how you look at it...).

Plus, I want to see all our heroes being, well, them a bit more. It's fun. I like seeing these sides to these people, after being such miserable underdogs with largely terrible fates in Unicorn Jelly; Kaywai, poor lonely unrequited dreamer who sacrificed herself for Chou's plan and definitely got chopped up; Pho, harsh military leader doing things he hates because he feels he must, and when all was said and done, a lonely man in love with someone who didn't have enough feeling to even understand what he tried to tell her (although he did die heroicly saving some people in a mine, IIRC); Texto, mentally screwed up serial killer with a sychophant buddy (at first), throwing himself into danger laughingly and then realizing all too late that "fire indeed hot" as Professy could've told him- and needlessly so, due to the following of stodgy old mistranslated codes about veil travel.

I know it's not the same people, them having been from a far less fortunate splay, but it's kinda cool from a story perspective to see what life could've been like for them if they were dealt a different hand.

[Relee]

I don't think that logic quite holds up; what if knowledge of transcendental heaven is the catalyst for the creation of transcendental heaven? In that case changing it so nobody knows about it would prevent it from happening.

Your post made the assumption that only our ignorance of heaven leads to heaven, when really your assumption should be that however it happens we shouldn't mess with the timestream leading up to it.

Even if that was the case, only specific people would know about it, as a subset of the multiverse. Obviously everybody doesn't know about it. ^.^;;

But if you tell everyone about trancendental heaven, that changes the normal structure of time 'cause suddenly everyone's outlook on life is different. There's little to no fear of death and everybody goes bonkers. Then Uh oh! We all killed ourselves and there's nobody left to initiate trancendenal heaven. Oops!

[ThingOfThing]

(I'm a broken record and possibly rude in doing so, sorry, but it was pertinent to this conversation I figured).

The concept of being rude by bringing the conversation back to the original topic is making me giggle. Sorry, I've had a long day. Anyway...

We don't actually know Kaye is really trying to save Chou; only that her plan involves her. I still hold suspicions that she may have something entirely different in mind. My two main theories (though my theories tend to be wrong) are that she's either (trying to save the Kaywais that sacrificed themselves to dissection for the creation of Kayes (as indicated by the clues Pho has found...),) or something much grander involving something she knows about far-flung futures, somehow pertaining to a computer with an AI. An AI that modeled itself (conjecture) first after Kaywai (Kaye?)...

Yanno, I suspected the bit you put in the tiny font size for a while, but now I'm not so sure. If finding out what Chou did makes is what makes Kaye H flip out, then we can safely assume she (Kaye) didn't know beforehand. Unless it's something else that freaks her out...

I'm interested in seeing what really happens with a Texto when you give him a chance, when his virtues get a chance to reveal themselves. He hasn't been serial killin' much lately, even though he is an overly morbid fellow and busted his way out of his home splay quite merrily and viciously.

He's currently reminding me of Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer after he went good. At least that bodes well.

There are a lot of mysteries about TSH, and answers to come (although I strongly suspect Un, um, Only's participation will still be somewhat mysterious... but what I've seen so far is enough to make me feel pretty sure Chou didn't chop Uni up as Lili supposed, but rather something much weirder- and grander- happened. Maybe. I suspect it will all depend on how you look at it...).

Yeah, that's interesting. We don't know Only's origin story the same way we do Uni's. Is there a unicorn in Only's splay, too?


...OK, I just wanted an excuse to use that picture. But I'm still serious! Sort of! I think...

[Monthenor]

But if you tell everyone about trancendental heaven, that changes the normal structure of time 'cause suddenly everyone's outlook on life is different. There's little to no fear of death and everybody goes bonkers. Then Uh oh! We all killed ourselves and there's nobody left to initiate trancendenal heaven. Oops!

See, I would predict that knowledge of transcendental heaven would motivate rival tribes to get there first...they cannot allow a transcendence gap with the dirty commies/pigdogs/etc. Then they transcend and are all "Whoa, rival tribes no longer concern us. Let us elevate them, y'all." Because transcendant beings have cute Southern accents long after the concept of "south" has disappeared.

[Jennifer Diane Reitz]

Several reasons to support TSH's continued weightiness:
......

'

You, by the way, utterly rock.

I just thought I would mention that.

I do not, however, confirm or deny anything in your post.

You do rock, though.

[Mitsukara]

@.@

Um... thanks. >.>

You rock too Seriously. People read and like your stuff, because frankly, you make good, interesting stuff. Whether you and the friendly neighborhood "lulz JDR am terrible" forum (which shall remain unnamed... you know the one) agree, or not, darn it!

[Tychomonger]

Several reasons to support TSH's continued weightiness:
......

'

You, by the way, utterly rock.

I just thought I would mention that.

I do not, however, confirm or deny anything in your post.

You do rock, though.

Why Jennifer, you seem to have gotten over that pesky cough!

[Alfador]

But if you tell everyone about trancendental heaven, that changes the normal structure of time 'cause suddenly everyone's outlook on life is different. There's little to no fear of death and everybody goes bonkers. Then Uh oh! We all killed ourselves and there's nobody left to initiate trancendenal heaven. Oops!

See, I would predict that knowledge of transcendental heaven would motivate rival tribes to get there first...they cannot allow a transcendence gap with the dirty commies/pigdogs/etc. Then they transcend and are all "Whoa, rival tribes no longer concern us. Let us elevate them, y'all." Because transcendant beings have cute Southern accents long after the concept of "south" has disappeared.

True. But we still get a score bonus for listening hardest to the Voice of Planet.

[SilverFeathers]

True. But we still get a score bonus for listening hardest to the Voice of Planet.

<insert witty Lifestream/Reunion joke here>

[AliRaza08]

It's a paradox. So nobody can know about trancendental heaven untill they die. But try to look surprised.