#229-231 - Conclusion


Can a lowly neoplastic doll save the universe?

Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Alfador » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:59 pm

And they still enjoy the vastly superior equivalent to video games. :3
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Quaeras » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Congrats Jennifer on finishing! It is quite a feat. I know I can't wait to own the PDH Hardcover with original art!
Two "Yay"s, one "Hey!" and an essay. Still counting.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Mitsukara » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:37 pm

I have to say this is simultaneously one of the weirdest, yet best, happiest, most perfect endings I have ever seen to a story. And just like always, I was utterly terrible at seeing it coming! Fuschia and Heliotrope didn't merge in some weird cosmic way after all. Something better happened.

All the flaws in what Fuschia was doing on the previous page as pointed out by readers... like how they could just time travel and retrieve all this stuff, and it was silly to give up her memories... all right. You'd already thought of all of it. And there was a great, romantic, awesome character reason to it all. :)

And I was just thinking last night, the saddest thing about PDH to me was that Aoi had sort of faded away and was assumed dead somewhere. In many ways he was kind of the main character, as much as Fuschia and Heliotrope. I liked him a lot.
Just... wow. This is awesome. :) And the new Aoi material body is so cute! I totally see someone using stuff off this page for their avatar, sooner or later.

And everything you've pointed out that didn't come to mind as I was reading it, all the implied possibility goodness... wow. Damn. That's incomprehensibly awesome. This also fixes the insinuation that Pastel was eventually going to be destroyed that I was getting the feeling of from the way it was all arced back.

And you know what else? http://www.pasteldefender.com/appendix%20a.html

Ha!

And as for OoO, or singularity, or whoever if there is still individuality at that point... I can't help but be reminded, silly (but awesome, no way am I dissing it) as it may be, of a quote from Futurama: "If you do things right, no one will realize you've done anything at all." Not quite perfectly applicable, but it comes to mind.
W!!
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Monocheres wrote:
Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:I guess I assume the reader, like me, would just naturally set up a system to save everyone, if they could, and had eternity anyway. Why not? It's kind and generous and compassionate.


To a first approximation, I'd agree ... but, everyone? Including, for instance ... Caligula? Jeffrey Dahmer? Hitler?

Are you entirely sure about that?

Well, perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I have held a personal belief for a while that no one is really "evil"; people do terrible, awful, horrific things because it's the way they saw fit to deal with horrible things that had happened to them (just like Chartreuse). It's all just one big nasty cycle of bad luck and unfairness creating more misery. That cycle could feasibly be broken, though it would most likely be nearly if not completely impossible for normal humans in today's universe that we know of...

But if it were broken, well. That'd be a real utopia.

Damn, but I like "the long birthday". It's just... perfect.
This makes me very happy. Thank you. 0-0

And an afterthought: the music from the Kamishibai for the ending? The really happy uppy music? That actually fits this ending. :) (Incidentally, where did music like that come from? I recognize some of the Kamishibai music as having videogame sources, but a lot of, I have no clue about)
Last edited by Mitsukara on Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Cardboard Box » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:08 pm

Well done, Jenny. I am definitely going to haunt you until I can get this comic in print.

"The Long Birthday" makes me think about something I wrote about in this BTT post which I'd more or less picked up by osmosis:

Neither gods nor man alone can uplift us; both must work together, though it may change both.

"The Long Birthday" seems to imply that there is something immutable about one's identity that emerges no matter what avatar it wears... a soul? Hannya is still Hannya. Aoi is still Aoi. And so on. Yet they clearly are changed enough to consider multi-millennia lifespans no big deal, let alone wearing sketchy bodies while larking around in a broken-down Krawlni ship.

I think that's somehow comforting.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby rosie » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:46 pm

I made you the thought-form of a cake.


Single. Best. Ending. Line. Ever. Please can a thought-form cake be an emoticon? ^v^
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby RaharuAharu » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:49 pm

rosie wrote:
I made you the thought-form of a cake.


Single. Best. Ending. Line. Ever. Please can a thought-form cake be an emoticon? ^v^


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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Wizard CaT » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:53 pm

Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:As for Ktlikitkaktl; with energy more than sufficient, and with nothing but empty room, it would be easy to imagine that K'Chk would end up playing host to countless revived beings, and Ktlikitkaktl would become a garden spot of the multiverse, once it thawed completely out, and became all green and lovely. We can imagine K'Chk becoming the gracious host of the most marvelous vacation spot in the metacosmos... and likely the first awakening place for newly-revived beings. As for Meiun, I would suspect he would probably want to go exploring... out there.


I guess. I mean, you know, it's your metaverse and all, but I just don't really... agree? Or see how that can be possible. Why would the Ktlikitkaktl change how they think? Why wouldn't they go out to conquer as the true gods like before? Why be content with what you have? Maybe I am just making them to human, but they WERE created by beings that were created by humans, so they aren't that far off. :pout:

Also it's been four years? Doesn't seem like it. I'll miss it though.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby marinschild » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:45 am

After he is revived, I wonder how long it takes for Cerul to get the message that Fushia is taken. What do you say; 50,000 years or 60,000?

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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Nick » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:43 am

RaharuAharu wrote:
rosie wrote:
I made you the thought-form of a cake.


Single. Best. Ending. Line. Ever. Please can a thought-form cake be an emoticon? ^v^


Yes Please!

As you wish.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:07 am

rosie wrote:
I made you the thought-form of a cake.


Single. Best. Ending. Line. Ever. Please can a thought-form cake be an emoticon? ^v^


I made one, but it has to be installed.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Relee » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:45 am

As long as the cake isn't garnished with fish-shaped solid waste... ^.^;;


I haven't heard of the concept of trancendental heaven in a long time. There is the concept that by the time there are people at that level they won't care about death and there won't be any reason to ressurect the past. On the other hand, there's always going to be wierdos. It's a facet of existance that expresses itself too completely in reality to deny.

I've actually known folks whose life goal it is to create a race of monsters and unleash them on the world in a furious blood orgy that restructures human society by giving it an implacable undefeatable foe that cannot be ended, only held at bay and escaped. Well maybe I inferred the second half... But yeah, if people want to do that now, surely in the future there will be those who wish to ressurect the world.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby strange_person » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:19 am

Alfador wrote:The cake is true.

Utterly beautiful ending.

Well, remember, it's only the thought-form of a cake. In some sense, it actually is a lie.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby andvari » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:40 pm

Aoi, Fushia, Heliotrope, and Hannya all now appear to be like then Krawlni: 4D individuals. That I find very interesting.

As for Happy Endings, there is not and never will be a Happy ending or any other kind of ending. Nothing ever ends, it just changes state. Matter to energy, energy to matter, ad-infinitum.

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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Monthenor » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:57 pm

strange_person wrote:
Alfador wrote:The cake is true.

Utterly beautiful ending.

Well, remember, it's only the thought-form of a cake. In some sense, it actually is a lie.

Pish posh, it's the thought that counts.

Also, the cake's cube is an optical illusion @,@

Giniko wrote:the hero's finally beat the shit out of the Big Bad, there is like one second of them going 'YEAH!' slam to black, roll credits

Have you seen Death Proof by Tarantino? It was the better second half of Grindhouse, and, yeah...kinda just gave away the ending, didn't I? Never mind.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Mitsukara » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:21 pm

Hey, yeah! That's the Spirit of the Abyss sending a cake through the Route of Ages! Only Dylan Hunt can save them now!

Seriously though, upon contemplation of details I have two questions:

(1) What method are they using to save all these various people? Is it like with Fuschia, where they link the person's mind to a computer right before death and transfer from there?

(2) Everyone? Don't they have access to cosmos besides Pastel now, though? So are they also saving people from Trysylmaistan and who knows where (even Mundis?), unto potential eternity? That's pretty far out if so. And pretty nice.

I'm of the opinion that even if one assumed that there actually were a great afterlife (or equivalent, like Heliotrope and Fuschia offer) for absolutely everyone, there's still a certain value to the actual existence of life itself. It just makes it so it's less about achieving a favorable outcome, and more a unique, challenging, personality-forming thing unto itself. Indeed, it was life in Pastel that gave Aoi and friends that sense of "humanity" to begin with, so in that way it all mattered and was worth something.

The thing is, some people seem to think that if it's all guaranteed 100% okay in the end than nothing about life "really" matters (and by association, they use this claim to discredit stories of holding emotional weight). I don't know why, they just don't seem to really look at it from more than one angle, I guess.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Nick » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:14 pm

That's what I believe too, Mitsu. The journey counts at least as much, if not more, than the destination.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Alfador » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:56 pm

Mitsukara wrote:(2) Everyone? Don't they have access to cosmos besides Pastel now, though? So are they also saving people from Trysylmaistan and who knows where (even Mundis?), unto potential eternity? That's pretty far out if so. And pretty nice.


They don't even need to do it all themselves. Just say when they uplift someone "Hey, here's how we got you all transcendent and stuff, now you can do it too, so if you don't mind, would you go out and do the same for like half a dozen other people? It won't take a minute, seriously. Oh, and be sure to tell them to do the same." Then no matter how many they managed to convert before going off to do other stuff, enough would follow the same directions that it'd continue exponentially.

Hopefully.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Mitsukara » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:16 pm

Well, I think from what Jennifer said that's what the Minyan were doing also. I'm just curious about details for the actual "transdendentalizing" method XD That, and the whole other cosmos thing.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:25 pm

Huzzah!

Something about the very last panel seemed too -- blatant, I guess? -- after the awesomeness of the ending to that point. But then it fit when I saw it was more of a wish. And I agree about the cake. ^v^

I don't know if I'd go out of my way to save Hitler. Then again, I might given time travel and endless subjective time. Certainly after a million years of torture in the traditional concentration camp Hell, he wouldn't be Hitler anymore.

What else did I want to say -- oh, WizardCat, if the revived Ktlik want to make trouble, they'll have to consider the risk of fighting between 3 and indefinitely many super-powerful foes.
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Re: #229-231 - Conclusion

Postby Locke » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:48 pm

I don't understand this ending. There was no definite end to the story, it just jumped a long, long way and then stopped. I had to read it like four times before I understood it at all. I think there was way too much left open and unexplained between 229 and 230. The ending of Unicorn Jelly was purposely vague and that worked well for it, but it was certainly final, and even that had an epilogue. The happy end of PDH apparently takes place 100,000 years later and is more of a snapshot of another part of the character's lives already in progress... it doesn't seem final. And what the hell did they turn into. :roll:

The page before that where Heliotrope/Fuschia is falling and looking kind of mental is more of a sad ending. I wish there had been a couple of simple explanatory pages between that page and the one after it. Some narration or something, rather than leaving 100,000 years and a lot of closure for the characters up to the reader's imagination.
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