Immortality

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Immortality

Postby strange_person » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:21 pm

A recurrent theme in Jennifer's works. I might as well be the first one to bring it up, but I'd rather not start with my own opinions.

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Vaebn wrote:Well, not bad ones at all I would say Killjoy, since clearly they/I want to extent it forever. Would you prefer it if people said "I wish I was dead?"

Specifically they are so good, the main disappointment stems from said "meat" not being so resilient. I want something with the full sensory pleasure and flexibility as well aesthetics of said meat (even if it is virtual, if the simulation is perfect) without its sensitivity

I want to be having crazy 20s bisexual sex into the 100s, 50003s and 24524395349999^4545345^343243s dude. I want to be doing ski and not clusterfuck my ankle when my genius masterfully miscalculates some momentum calculations.
I want to drink, drink more, drink even more, take a containerload of heroin mixed with DMT and next day be absolutely fine.
I want to sit and procrastinate playing with my thoughts without thinking "oh-shi! My meat cells are dividing bringing me closer to my death!".
I want to build a sandcastle the scale of the forbidden city and then play with waterguns in it.

Some say short and fun.
Some say long and boring.

Bullshit, I say long and fun And this non so intelligently designed "meat" is a problem to that, preventing this awesome experience called life from continuing in high quality for a logical amount of time, say, forever.
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Re: Immortality

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:49 pm

I would not mind a few weird side effects in exchange for increased lifespan. The calorie reduction would be very, very hard though. I would need real evidence that it would matter significantly in humans before facing that aspect.
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Re: Immortality

Postby strange_person » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:43 am

Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:I would not mind a few weird side effects in exchange for increased lifespan.


The logic being, if the 'killer app' works, you've got all the time in the world to work out the details?
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Re: Immortality

Postby Anna » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:22 am

There is no real reason to get older.
As an old one, you don't get work, no one will give you a job, a good job. you're to old, simple.
And don't forget there is a lovely alzheimer risk around the corner, or cancer, the possibility to get it ifs higher with a growing age.
Older bodies are getting more and faster sick than you would like it, and your american problems with a health insurance, and the problems with a health system we've got outside the USA, doesn't make me feel good.
Being old is a curse on earth in these times.
Getting older without the benefit staying in a body who can fight against aging, and without a society who accept old people, you can forget your dreams of immortality.
You have to be rich, very shamless rich to getting old without problems.
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Re: Immortality

Postby SilverFeathers » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:42 am

I have a hard time with the idea of living forever, although I tend to live in a very Now-state, so every day is... I'm not unhappy, and I'm content in my day-to-day sameness... which some people would probably find really madenningly dull, but I like it. It has everyday work or pet chaos to keep things interesting (Don't talk to me about the US healthcare system. That's 75% of our chaos at work. Oi.). But... I can't imagine what I would do with endless time since as I am right now, I'm at a point where I've done almost everything that I want to, and everything else I might like to do, if I never do it, that's okay. No desire to have children or a mate. I have my pets who are my kids. I'm content.

Although my family tells me that's impossible because, y'know, I still have bills to pay and don't make a mint at work and don't desire the uberhouse with 15 bedrooms for just me and my pets and a minimum of 3 cars for just my own use (what's wrong with the bus or walking?) and yet I'm still content . According to them, I probably need psychiatric help.

Is contentedness really a mental illness nowadays? >.<
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Re: Immortality

Postby Alikat » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:55 am

Living Forever = Bad. Here is where I show my work:

To live forever is to foreshorten Time itself into a static dimension. Therefore, a true immortal is completely frozen, paralyzed, immobile, sessile, from it's own perspective. Such an existence is a True Hell. The boredom would be complete, there would not even be so much as a window to look out of, since all of Existence might as well be a still photograph.

Life is growth followed by death. As soon as you stop growing, you start dying. A True Immortal is already dead.
#_#
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Re: Immortality

Postby Idiot Glee » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:00 am

I could get into immortality.

Now I'd have to be eternally youthful. I'd just go around, learn all I could, and be generally useful to mortals.

Maybe I'd join a secret organization, save world, and the girl, and the guy. Wear outdated military outfits, hang around Cardiff, help out where I can.

Alikat wrote:The boredom would be complete


I've got hobbies, and the tenth or twentieth PhD might be fun.
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Re: Immortality

Postby SilverFeathers » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:09 am

Alikat wrote:Living Forever = Bad. Here is where I show my work:

To live forever is to foreshorten Time itself into a static dimension. Therefore, a true immortal is completely frozen, paralyzed, immobile, sessile, from it's own perspective. Such an existence is a True Hell. The boredom would be complete, there would not even be so much as a window to look out of, since all of Existence might as well be a still photograph.

Life is growth followed by death. As soon as you stop growing, you start dying. A True Immortal is already dead.
#_#


Never to mention constantly losing the things you care about that aren't immortal. Granted, I'm kind of on the weird end of society being asexual (people at my job just can't fathom this one, and when you've been told at a PFLAG meeting that "that's impossible. There's no such thing" and "That's abnormal"... yeah...). But, I'm rather partial to my pets, and they're far from immortal. It's enough losing them now. Immortality would be a nightmare that way.

-.-
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Re: Immortality

Postby Alfador » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:53 am

Anna wrote:Getting older without the benefit staying in a body who can fight against aging, and without a society who accept old people, you can forget your dreams of immortality.


*shudder* Struldbrugs?
>.<
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Re: Immortality

Postby SilverFeathers » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:16 pm

I think to properly enjoy immortality, you would also require invulnerability. Imagine getting horribly injured and spending the rest of eternity like that...

And, yes, I think eternal youth would probably have to go along with the package.

I still don't think I'd want it, though. I would get bored.
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Re: Immortality

Postby Alfador » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:27 pm

I'd settle for indefinite extension on life, coupled with lack of aging and sufficient abilities (possibly supernatural, possibly technological) to stave off accidental or intentional (the intent of others, by the way) death for quite some time.

That way, I'd have an extremely long life, longer than the usual human standard. I wouldn't suffer from old age. And, ideally, I'd live through such a wide variety of positive and negative experiences that death itself, no matter how horrible, would be just another experience when it came. (And given the aforementioned abilities, it'd likely be quick and when I wasn't looking.)

Incidentally, that is the way I think of my "ideal self" character Alfador, except that the death I speak of here would be a "final death" that I really don't ever want to write about, whereas as a multiversal traveller, I can quite easily find a universe with a sufficiently magical afterlife that I can die more than once, not actually seeing an end to my life at those points. More like planar travel through extreme bodily destruction. ;]
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Re: Immortality

Postby SilverFeathers » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:32 pm

I think living in a current state of in the moment is about as immortal as I want to get, since as it is I don't have much concept of passing time beyond day to day. And once a day is gone... what happened yesterday and what happened a year ago may as well have been the same day. Memories are all one long day. It's not disturbing at all to feel. I take one day at a time, one step at a time.

I think knowing that our time is limited, and that we never know when it might end, makes life all the sweeter.

Or maybe I've just read too much ElfQuest. #_@
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Re: Immortality

Postby draque » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:51 pm

The issue of boredom is something that I've thought of a number of times. If we were able to find a way to allow ourselves infinite memory, wouldn't we eventually become bored of all things? Not necessarily. As our experiences expanded, so would our ability to compare new things to a bank of past experiences. Our experiences would need to become more and more complex to be new to us. They would have to be non-repeating. They would also have to be meaningful.

Transcendental numbers are necessarily non-repeating and it is inevitable that in the infinite string of numerical values that represent them, there will be (purely by coincidence) strings that can be interpreted meaningfully. If you were to look for meaningful strings of increasing length (each string must be longer than the last), you would never run out.

Obviously looking for strings of potentially meaningful data in transcendentals is rather dry, it serves as a proof of concept. So long as we're given an infinite canvas to work with, we never have to get bored. We just have to allow ourselves to constantly expand. The only thing this would necessitate is the realization that if you intend to live forever, you'll never reach a point where you will not face a future in which you are so different that you would be unrecognizable (and moreover incomprehensible) to your current self.
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Re: Immortality

Postby SilverFeathers » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:05 pm

You have all the time in the world.... and then you break your glasses...
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Re: Immortality

Postby Monocheres » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:31 pm

Anna wrote:*shudder* Struldbrugs?


Worse: Tithonus. *chirp-chirp*

*shudder*
>.<
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Re: Immortality

Postby Monocheres » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:41 pm

SilverFeathers wrote:I think living in a current state of in the moment is about as immortal as I want to get, since as it is I don't have much concept of passing time beyond day to day. And once a day is gone... what happened yesterday and what happened a year ago may as well have been the same day. Memories are all one long day. It's not disturbing at all to feel. I take one day at a time, one step at a time.


Guess it would all depend on what day that was...

NED: Phil! Phil Connors! I thought that was you!
[Phil looks at him vaguely.]
PHIL (at a loss): I'm sorry. Have we— uh—
NED: My oh my! Phil Connors. Don't say you don't remember me, 'cause I sure as heckrfire remember you. Well?
[Phil stares, trying to remember.]
NED: Ned Ryerson? Needlenose Ned? Ned the Head. Come on, buddy. Case Western High?
PHIL: Ned?
NED: Bing!

Q.E.D.
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Re: Immortality

Postby strange_person » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:29 pm

SilverFeathers wrote:I think to properly enjoy immortality, you would also require invulnerability. Imagine getting horribly injured and spending the rest of eternity like that...
Alfador wrote:I'd settle for indefinite extension on life, coupled with lack of aging and sufficient abilities (possibly supernatural, possibly technological) to stave off accidental or intentional (the intent of others, by the way) death for quite some time.


I'd be okay with just deactivating the normal macrobiotic self-destruct mechanisms, and getting the miracle-mouse gene mod.
Essentially, it removes a limiter on the body's innate self-healing capabilities, so that rather than forming permanent scar tissue, missing sections regrow as good as new. Fingers, eyes, even heart muscle and spinal nerves… as long as there's enough left for you to be alive, you'll eventually be fine. You could even get the Orpheus treatment, have everything below the neck cut off and destroyed, and as long as you got reasonably prompt medical attention (including the mother of all heart/lung machines), and it would all grow back.
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Re: Immortality

Postby Wizard CaT » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:05 pm

So everyone wants to be like the guy from Justice League: Unlimited who went to close to a meteo that landed and was mutated so he could never ever die. And then eons in the future actually helped Superman save the world through time travel because he was so bored.
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Re: Immortality

Postby Volair » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:24 pm

Alikat wrote:Living Forever = Bad. Here is where I show my work:

To live forever is to foreshorten Time itself into a static dimension. Therefore, a true immortal is completely frozen, paralyzed, immobile, sessile, from it's own perspective. Such an existence is a True Hell. The boredom would be complete, there would not even be so much as a window to look out of, since all of Existence might as well be a still photograph.

Life is growth followed by death. As soon as you stop growing, you start dying. A True Immortal is already dead.
#_#


I don't buy it.

Jennifer points out, quite correctly, that to live forever, but stay YOU, you would have to give up experiencing anything new after a while. But screw staying me. Me is a bitchy little infant who complains when you fire pain signals down his neurons and who thinks sixty years is a painfully long wait and who still likes spongy, low-substance entertainments like Shakespeare. I'll gladly ditch "me". A thousand times over. I'll bifurcate, I'll grow so far beyond what I am that nobody'd ever begin to recognize me.

IF.

If I can last the doubtless short span of years between now and a time when a slightly more durable body can be got... because each step along the way will get me closer to being something entirely beyond human.
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Re: Immortality

Postby Monthenor » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:01 pm

Wizard CaT wrote:So everyone wants to be like the guy from Justice League: Unlimited who went to close to a meteo that landed and was mutated so he could never ever die. And then eons in the future actually helped Superman save the world through time travel because he was so bored.

Hells yes. Alternating hobbies: one century villain, next century hero. Make a mess, clean it up.

I think I'd rather have time travel than immortality, though. If it came to a choice.
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