Troll Excluder

Discussion Of All Things Jenniversal (http://jenniverse.com)

Troll Excluder

Postby strange_person » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:59 am

Somebody suggested having the people from the UJ boards meet in meatspace. I think this would be interesting, but it occurred to me that for such a meeting, moreso than at any other time, it would be important to exclude the griefers, spambots, and trolls. Unending plague of the interwebs that they are, such creatures can be far more dangerous in face-to-face.

The problem is, how does one go about letting in all the people who want to be there for fun, but excluding all the stickful and/or spiteful assholes? The forum's registration protocol will not suffice. It may stop spambots, but it didn't stop Zack. On the other coil, if the test were made more difficult (as I'm sure it could be), it might end up excluding some of the more entertaining-but-distractable forumites.

Here's my proposal: pick some large number that can only be determined through familiarity with Jennifer's work. Say, the number of panels in the Muse-inspired section of Unicorn Jelly. It's important that it be something that would be hard to determine mechanically, and also that it be a large number. Don't post the number itself, just describe it. If the number of panels isn't big enough, find something else, or maybe take the square or the cube or something and then subtract one. Finding the number is half the test; one characteristic that trolls seem to have in common is a lack of patience, particularly an unwillingness to find the proper context for things. Once you've got that big number, split it up into prime factors. Then, use those numbers (particularly the larger prime factors) in a simple substitution cipher to encode the month, day, year, GPS coordinates of the actual meeting place and time.

It's probably not necessary to encode the year or month, or the degrees and minututes of latitude and longitude. An area one minute by one minute is roughly a five-mile radius, and anyone who's willing to stake out a five-mile radius, possibly in an urban center, for four weeks, has enough resources and determination to just do the math and find the exact answer. For trolls of that magnitude, we'll probably need to fall back on conventional law-enforcement things, like restraining orders.

Would this work?

By the way, if someone, say, on PoE spills the beans on the 'magic number,' I've got a contingency plan adapted from a 1980's sci-fi story, altered only in that it doesn't involve infectious nanobots. PM me for details.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby RaharuAharu » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:21 am

S_P, you are over thinking this... WAY too much.

For one, no one wants to do all of that just to come to a friendly party...

Just selects a forum member or two, perhaps the ones willing to host the gathering, and ask them to make a list of the currently active forum members.

Once that list has a good going over once or twice, just PM each person on it, with the time, date and location.

If your serious about this we should set it about a year in advance, and start planing and saving. We can also talk about location and what not on the board, and only PM the guest list when its confirmed... possibly sending out a FAKE location publicly.

However Honestly I do not think we need to use such levels of security, most trolls will never come out from under their bridges.

Really. They know if they share their opinions in the Real world they would be the ones who are left out, and made fun of. Also they would be most likely to get a solid punch in the nose.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Idiot Glee » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:06 am

>_< Overkill!

Let's just ask one question: Who wants to go? Then weed out of those we don't trust, if they even ask to go.

Better question! What shall the even be called? Jennicon? Unicon?
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby draque » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:10 am

One of the reasons trolls are so prevalent online is because of the guarantee of anonymity. In person that type of anonymity is guaranteed not to be present. I don't think that an in person meeting would have any trouble with trolls for that reason. Without the internet, John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory breaks down.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Alfador » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:21 am

Idiot Glee wrote:>_< Overkill!

Let's just ask one question: Who wants to go? Then weed out of those we don't trust, if they even ask to go.

Better question! What shall the even be called? Jennicon? Unicon?


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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Yubi Shines » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:40 pm

Or just PM forum regulars who want to go with the details.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:17 pm

Trolls are by their nature cowards. They use anonymity to hide because they want to act out things, and say things, that they know are wrong, that they would never say to your face (or even under their real name). You need not worry about such matters as a troll party crasher. One or two lone asshats against a larger group of fans, there to cause trouble face-to-face? Imagine that in High School - they would get their asses kicked, literally. They would fear to try it, and rightfully so.

Now remember that 'adulthood' is just immature high-school forever, only with more boring clothing and a paycheck, and you pretty much have sussed humanity.

The griefers may be annoying, they may even hurt ze feelings from time to time, but they are cowardly ghosts, whispers on an electronic box, made brave by the idea that they cannot be held accountable. They are naughty children, perpetual adolescents, and if you were to meet one in public, they would smile at you and shift their eyes uncomfortably, afraid of being found out.

If they had any courage, they would be posting under their real name, facing real consequences, wouldn't they?

Consider them not.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Wizard CaT » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:31 pm

Use guns! They solve all problems like this 0-0 ^^
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Mitsukara » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:57 pm

The thing to fear isn't trolls, it's psyhcos. People who will attack and hurt you in person. Unfortunately that's a much trickier and grayer problem to identify and block... basically, a good amount of physical safety practices are in order.

Also, judging people based on how informed they are doesn't help. UJ has the attentions of a whole super special forum devoted to studying and mocking everything Jennifer does, remember?

Just make sure that (A) you don't give out the address and information willy nilly, and (B) make sure that once you have people together, they can be safeguarded. Figure out who you trust most and give them some responsibilities in keeping the thing safe and keeping an eye on others. Use public exposure to filter out the likelyhood of someone pulling a knife all of the sudden. Study tricks I probably don't know about that groups like Ingersol use to avoid being attacked, perhaps.

I think it's a good idea to try to protect such a convention and keep it safe, because it has things to fear, but don't let that fear control it, and there's only so much of it that can (and should) be done on the forum itself... I think it's more of an issue of keeping things safe in-person.

Of course, a big, big issue with a convention like that is affordability and plausibility. People have to secure the time in advance, and be capable of getting there, in terms of travel and money and personal freedom. It helps to set up a balanced location between where most of the people live, if that's even possible, and to set it for quite some time after the planning.

I think.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Relee » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:19 am

Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:Now remember that 'adulthood' is just immature high-school forever, only with more boring clothing and a paycheck, and you pretty much have sussed humanity.


Hang on a sec, you don't really believe that do you Jenny? I mean, stop thinking about other people for a moment, stand up, and look around you irl. Seriously. Are you in an immature high-school-like setting, wearing boring clothes?
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Alikat » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:16 pm

It would be a definite concern if we were to have a get-together and some violent sociopath crashed the party and tried to harm someone. I'd be really worried about what I'd tell the cops after they showed up to find me standing over the perp's corpse.

I'm actually quite good at inflicting physical harm: I took loads of martial arts courses for PE credit in college, and spent many hours in fencing practice, rifle and pistol practice, archery practice, and on the paintball field I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds. I can even throw knives with a fair degree of accuracy. So you'd all better take up a collection for my plane ticket if you want a bodyguard who is more dangerous than most psychos. :)
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby arex » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:23 pm

Are we really having so much trouble that we need to go to such lengths to ensure exclusivity? Some turd shows up, boot him, move on, spare no more thought on it.


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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Jennifer Diane Reitz » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:05 am

Relee wrote:
Jennifer Diane Reitz wrote:Now remember that 'adulthood' is just immature high-school forever, only with more boring clothing and a paycheck, and you pretty much have sussed humanity.


Hang on a sec, you don't really believe that do you Jenny? I mean, stop thinking about other people for a moment, stand up, and look around you irl. Seriously. Are you in an immature high-school-like setting, wearing boring clothes?


Yes I believe what I said, and nothing so petty or simple as the way you put it.

What I refer to are the social dynamics of high school - the cliques, the egos, the bullies and the beaten, the immature mayhem of adolescent life.

I do not think that the vast majority of human beings ever grow emotionally past adolescence. Humanity is a fully domesticated species. The very definition of domesticity is that infantile traits are retained so that an animal will remain emotionally dependent, easily controlled and easily manipulated. Infantile traits include infantile behavior.

Look around you at the world. See how it works. Observe how society is divided into cliques - there are jocks and nerds and bullies and geeks and socialites yet. See how status is everything to most people, how their childish behavior has shaped the world. Imagine any world situation in terms of being under the control of adolescents -with all their issues- and the world actually makes sense. The insecurities and cruelties of high school are more subtle, they are covered in expensive suits, or rags, or polyester, but they are in no way evolved.

The vast majority of mankind is stuck between the ages of 13 and 18, and this is perhaps the primary reason the world is what it is.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Anna » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:25 am

Jennifers statement reminds a bit to something I'd read in the book "A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century" by Barbara Tuchman
I don't know if I'll get it correct, but she notes that in these old times the leading people weren't very old like today, they where young, mostly in the middle of the twenty's, and so the politics was an impatient one.
You see, guy's in the age above 40 where seldom and above 50 they where are shown as real old people.

So Jennifers idea is more an old story, in a way, off course no highschools at those days.
I wonder how her interpretation is working in other countries.


...The link to the book I mentioned....
http://www.amazon.com/Distant-Mirror-Ca ... 148&sr=1-1
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby draque » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:37 am

Alikat wrote:It would be a definite concern if we were to have a get-together and some violent sociopath crashed the party and tried to harm someone.


How would this be more likely for a UJ meetup than for any other kind? To think that some troll would be carefully watching the boards and willing to devote time and effort to follow us to the meeting place and attack violently isn't just paranoid... it seems kind of self important. Do you honestly think we're important enough for anyone to give that much of a damn that they would want to hurt us? We're a forum group of a series of webcomics. Even if the comics are written by someone who is well known for being transsexual, I still don't see the need for so much suspicion.

Anyhow, on a more pragmatic note, it might be easier to simply make a meetup at a larger convention. Any kind of scifi/fantasy convention would give people some good motivation to attend and it would provide plenty of fun stuff to do while hanging out.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Tychomonger » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:45 am

Hmm, this raises a thought. Jennifer, are you still running RPGs? Because I would absolutely LOVE to play in a game you ran.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Relee » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:36 pm

Yeah seriously, anybody who was psycho enough to want to hurt members of the UJ forums would have already looked up Jenny's address and stuck a pipe-bomb in her mailbox. I don't think anybody is gonna try to hurt us. ^.^;;
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Alikat » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:31 pm

draque wrote:
Alikat wrote:It would be a definite concern if we were to have a get-together and some violent sociopath crashed the party and tried to harm someone.


How would this be more likely for a UJ meetup than for any other kind? To think that some troll would be carefully watching the boards and willing to devote time and effort to follow us to the meeting place and attack violently isn't just paranoid... it seems kind of self important. Do you honestly think we're important enough for anyone to give that much of a damn that they would want to hurt us? We're a forum group of a series of webcomics. Even if the comics are written by someone who is well known for being transsexual, I still don't see the need for so much suspicion.

Anyhow, on a more pragmatic note, it might be easier to simply make a meetup at a larger convention. Any kind of scifi/fantasy convention would give people some good motivation to attend and it would provide plenty of fun stuff to do while hanging out.

No, I've encountered the amount of energy devoted to hating Jennifer out there on the web, it's actually quite a tribute to her that she's inspired so many asshats to hate her so much that they've dedicated literally reams upon reams of wanking on about her, and after seeing her physical address posted on Encyclopedia Dramatica, I put nothing past those yard apes. They obviously posted her address as a stalking aid.

Now imagine if a Who's Who of the UJforums made plans for a get-together. We'd be constantly scanning the rafters for those telltale buckets of pig's blood.
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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby OtakuMan » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:53 pm

You know what.

First ever gathering of Jenniverse fans, the Regional Jirying, will be held on Yahoo Instant Messenger this Sunday evening at 8 PM Eastern Standard Time. I will invite under my YIM name of cymbaline22, and use of YIM and installation of YIM is required.

If you don't like YIM, we can use a different chat program next time.

See you there!

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Re: Troll Excluder

Postby Idiot Glee » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:20 pm

OtakuMan wrote:You know what.

First ever gathering of Jenniverse fans, the Regional Jirying, will be held on Yahoo Instant Messenger this Sunday evening at 8 PM Eastern Standard Time. I will invite under my YIM name of cymbaline22, and use of YIM and installation of YIM is required.

If you don't like YIM, we can use a different chat program next time.

See you there!

~Otaku-Man


Can people just admit that AIM is more common, I mean GMAIL Chat has it's uses, but AIM is so common, why not use that?
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